Liability Of Condition Reports - REO Property Preservation Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 65
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Liability Of Condition Reports

I have been in this industry for a long time. I have always laughed when someone tried to attempt to get me to do something at my cost for failing to report an issue. Mind you there were only a few in over a decade of completions but I still would not tolerate it. A Condition Report is basically a courtesy being it is not a billable item. My rebuttal was basically a matter of it existed or they were just insane. For example- I received a work order to provide a bid to remove a collapsing porch roof/overhang. I submitted the bid and it was approved and completed. Two months later they came back telling me that I had to install a new roof at my cost being I did not bid to install a new one. For one, they didn't ask for that bid. Two, it is quite obvious a new one would be needed and that is just a lack of common sense that you failed to think of if it when requesting the removal bid. Thirdly AND MOST IMPORTANT, the mortgage company needs to complete their own due diligence on THEIR property.

The ones with the condition reports are more complex and too much to type but it is the same concept. The PCR's are basically a quick overview of the house however they hold the liability of a $300 Home Inspection. Everyone should put in the comment section of the PCR - "We can not guarantee that any conditions have not been overlooked. This is not a paid service and we are completing this report as a courtesy while completing paid services at the property. If you would like a binding, detailed inspection there will be a fee of $100-$300."

I would really like to see all PP vendors to start standing ground and stop taking the abuse. This nonsense does not fly in the real construction industry and nor should it here. I will be pushing this on all of the PP forums and try to get everyone to instill to these nationals that WITHOUT US, YOU DO NOT EXIST !!! Come on everyone, stop bowing down to the greedy, whip cracking companies that play these games and do not respect the vendors. I cant do it myself. Just do it in a professional manner.
USConsulting is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 07:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 218
Thanks: 36
Thanked 67 Times in 50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by USConsulting View Post
I have been in this industry for a long time. I have always laughed when someone tried to attempt to get me to do something at my cost for failing to report an issue. Mind you there were only a few in over a decade of completions but I still would not tolerate it. A Condition Report is basically a courtesy being it is not a billable item. My rebuttal was basically a matter of it existed or they were just insane. For example- I received a work order to provide a bid to remove a collapsing porch roof/overhang. I submitted the bid and it was approved and completed. Two months later they came back telling me that I had to install a new roof at my cost being I did not bid to install a new one. For one, they didn't ask for that bid. Two, it is quite obvious a new one would be needed and that is just a lack of common sense that you failed to think of if it when requesting the removal bid. Thirdly AND MOST IMPORTANT, the mortgage company needs to complete their own due diligence on THEIR property.

The ones with the condition reports are more complex and too much to type but it is the same concept. The PCR's are basically a quick overview of the house however they hold the liability of a $300 Home Inspection. Everyone should put in the comment section of the PCR - "We can not guarantee that any conditions have not been overlooked. This is not a paid service and we are completing this report as a courtesy while completing paid services at the property. If you would like a binding, detailed inspection there will be a fee of $100-$300."

I would really like to see all PP vendors to start standing ground and stop taking the abuse. This nonsense does not fly in the real construction industry and nor should it here. I will be pushing this on all of the PP forums and try to get everyone to instill to these nationals that WITHOUT US, YOU DO NOT EXIST !!! Come on everyone, stop bowing down to the greedy, whip cracking companies that play these games and do not respect the vendors. I cant do it myself. Just do it in a professional manner.
All I can tell you is that many didn't take this abuse and left this industry for good.
Stress will get you eventually
There is no common sense, you can't fight this machine
newreo is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to newreo For This Useful Post:
JoeInPI (07-07-2016)
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-07-2016, 08:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 666
Thanks: 124
Thanked 336 Times in 182 Posts
It is an uncompensated contract of adhesion

and is not enforceable in most cases, and in most locales.
Ohnojim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-08-2016, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 65
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohnojim View Post
and is not enforceable in most cases, and in most locales.
I fully understand that it isn't easy to change things for everyone however, it is not impossible either. What I did on my PCR's as I described worked for me. I was just putting it out there for others to give it a shot.

The most common policy is the York-Jersey one. If the charge back is over 5K then your insurance company has to deal with it under the E&O policy. That is why you wont see most go over that and anything under hits your pocket.

If everyone thinks it is impossible to change things you are wrong. The problem is that no one has the sack to group up and stand up for their livelihood which blows my mind. What everyone needs is a person with a sack that is no longer in the industry and has nothing to lose. I know of the perfect person however he would want a salary. This should be what Eric Miller should be doing. And FYI, to all of the NAMFS members out there- you do know that you can vote him out don't you ??? I am sure that the poll would be "no, I didn't know that. With that said, lets see if anyone takes action.
USConsulting is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-09-2016, 03:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 179
Thanks: 91
Thanked 78 Times in 51 Posts
Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by USConsulting View Post
I fully understand that it isn't easy to change things for everyone however, it is not impossible either. What I did on my PCR's as I described worked for me. I was just putting it out there for others to give it a shot.

The most common policy is the York-Jersey one. If the charge back is over 5K then your insurance company has to deal with it under the E&O policy. That is why you wont see most go over that and anything under hits your pocket.

If everyone thinks it is impossible to change things you are wrong. The problem is that no one has the sack to group up and stand up for their livelihood which blows my mind. What everyone needs is a person with a sack that is no longer in the industry and has nothing to lose. I know of the perfect person however he would want a salary. This should be what Eric Miller should be doing. And FYI, to all of the NAMFS members out there- you do know that you can vote him out don't you ??? I am sure that the poll would be "no, I didn't know that. With that said, lets see if anyone takes action.
Change wont happen until a big bank is sued. The things they let happen in this industry is CRIMINAL. Oh maybe they didn't know lol
"OH YOU SAY YOU DIDNT KNOW" Here look at all the emails received from your company/ bank
TAKE NOTICE OF SUBJECT LINE
Your Not meeting minimal wage standard.
Illegal charge back.
extortion attempt
Can you explain this pricelist from one of the companies YOU hired and allowed this to go on.


You have really, really, really, really I mean really smart contractors AKA jokers working for peanuts 30 dollar wints insane 15 a yard cut and debris.

Have one company getting ripped off for a 150k and says they are a good company. You just cant make this stuff up.

You can bet your hairy azz someone is gonna do it.
Bigtrucker is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 12:01 PM
Doc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
"Have one company getting ripped off for a 150k and says they are a good company. You just cant make this stuff up."

It seems to be common knowledge that many companies drag the payment out beyond the legal requirements to file a lien (60 days?).

A possible solution for a vendor/contractor would be to require payment received no later than 30 days from invoice date (net 30)? (certified letter perhaps). Interest for late payment will apply.

It gives the vendor/contractor the opportunity to file a lien(s) which would perk the "payee's" interest.

I've told companies that if they wanted an aspen grove background that it's on their dime. I already know that my background is perfect and that I've done a background check on them and it appears to be not so stellar (free public knowledge, Google and on this forum).

In that case you (the vendor) could require an up-front deposit (possibly in in an escrow account) to cover potential losses in the likely event of a non/late-payment for services rendered.
Doc is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
safeguard dropout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Midwest
Posts: 628
Thanks: 410
Thanked 406 Times in 233 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc View Post
"Have one company getting ripped off for a 150k and says they are a good company. You just cant make this stuff up."

It seems to be common knowledge that many companies drag the payment out beyond the legal requirements to file a lien (60 days?).

A possible solution for a vendor/contractor would be to require payment received no later than 30 days from invoice date (net 30)? (certified letter perhaps). Interest for late payment will apply.

It gives the vendor/contractor the opportunity to file a lien(s) which would perk the "payee's" interest.

I've told companies that if they wanted an aspen grove background that it's on their dime. I already know that my background is perfect and that I've done a background check on them and it appears to be not so stellar (free public knowledge, Google and on this forum).

In that case you (the vendor) could require an up-front deposit (possibly in in an escrow account) to cover potential losses in the likely event of a non/late-payment for services rendered.
All great in theory, but it'll never happen until, and likely never, contractors/vendors are in demand. We are currently on the high supply side of supply and demand evidenced by the waiting line for $25 grass cuts and $400 full initial service.
safeguard dropout is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to safeguard dropout For This Useful Post:
G 3 (07-11-2016), Ohnojim (07-10-2016)
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-10-2016, 10:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 666
Thanks: 124
Thanked 336 Times in 182 Posts
I can change things overnight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USConsulting View Post
I fully understand that it isn't easy to change things for everyone however, it is not impossible either. What I did on my PCR's as I described worked for me. I was just putting it out there for others to give it a shot.

The most common policy is the York-Jersey one. If the charge back is over 5K then your insurance company has to deal with it under the E&O policy. That is why you wont see most go over that and anything under hits your pocket.

If everyone thinks it is impossible to change things you are wrong. The problem is that no one has the sack to group up and stand up for their livelihood which blows my mind. What everyone needs is a person with a sack that is no longer in the industry and has nothing to lose. I know of the perfect person however he would want a salary. This should be what Eric Miller should be doing. And FYI, to all of the NAMFS members out there- you do know that you can vote him out don't you ??? I am sure that the poll would be "no, I didn't know that. With that said, lets see if anyone takes action.

There are plenty of other things to do. Do something else. Don't put all your eggs one basket.

Only a smaller supply of contractors willing to do the work will change anything. That will require a better job market all around.
Ohnojim is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 02:07 AM
Doc
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 27
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by safeguard dropout View Post
All great in theory, but it'll never happen until, and likely never, contractors/vendors are in demand. We are currently on the high supply side of supply and demand evidenced by the waiting line for $25 grass cuts and $400 full initial service.
I understand what your saying. I still feel that a requirement to be payed for services rendered should fall well short of the 60 day maximum allowed for placing a lien.

Having that requirement would give both parties enough time to get-there-ducks-in-a-row prior to an arbitration hearing.

If either party comes to the rational conclusion that they may lose the case (having to pay additional arbitration fees and/or interest fees) they have the opportunity to concede or take it to the next level.

Otherwise an independent arbitrator that's reviewing the facts can make an impartial decision.
Doc is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 08:22 AM
How I wanna be a PP Pro
 
Wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 232
Thanked 1,277 Times in 562 Posts
The similarities between the insurance claim process and the P&P business is eerily similar for you that don't do insurance repair work. The one thing that all insurance policies have that does offer the homeowner a semblance of protection from a poor adjustment is the Appraisal Clause. The appraisal clause is an "informal mediation" that can be conducted by anyone nominated by the homeowner/insured and they negotiate with an appraiser representing the insurance company and if they cannot come to an agreement they both decide on a 3rd party named an Umpire. An agreement of 2 of the 3 members settles the claim and issues an award which is binding on both the homeowner and insurance company.

I've done many appraisals representing homeowners as an appraiser and I've always thought "what if you could change homeowner to contractor and insurance company to Mortgage Service Company?"

If you have never filed suit against a Service Company you will find out that the biggest problem you face is finding legal council that understands the business. Same goes for arbitration. Hire a general practitioner and you will lose--either in your suit or paying for all the additional hours the lawyer bills for studying the business model.

What I did, with little success, developed our own contract that was signed by the Service Company. The Service Companies were shocked that we had contracts spelling out our rights and obligations.

The P&P business model is so backwards it's frightening. When a contractor does any contracting with a homeowner that contractor provides a work authorization/contract to homeowner for signature before commencement of work. In P&P the contractor does not provide a contract to homeowner? Why not?

I believe, along with many atty's I dealt with years past, is these Service Companies actively search for unknowledgable contractors who don't know their right OR who cannot afford to file suit. I believe the reason for background checks besides criminal is to see the financial solvency of contractor---no savings means the likelihood of affording to sue is diminished.

Arbitration? Great in theory. Still expensive and the Service Companies use this as a delay tactic and normally not binding.

My humble opinion: start requiring the contractors to submit their own contracts to service companies for signature that outlined your right and responsibilities along with payment schedules. If any part of the contract is not fulfilled then nearly any Atty can file a Breach of Contract claim.
Wannabe is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Wannabe For This Useful Post:
Ohnojim (07-13-2016), safeguard dropout (07-11-2016)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the REO Property Preservation Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome