Brothers With Five Property Management Fingers - REO Property Preservation Forum
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Cool Brothers With Five Property Management Fingers

This thread is about the sisters and the way they start you out as a contractor. They start out small by seeing if you want to get into this business. They make sure you answer your phone and can receive email. You will need to have general liability insurance. They also send you some paperwork that you are supposed to read and study. A trainer calls you and sort of quizzes you for 30 or 45 minutes.

(Five times I have had Brothers tell me that.) Eventually, you will have to get a background check. So before you even work for the Sisters, you have to cough up some money for the background check done through some 3rd party website. It seemed very odd to me. I took the plunge, and it has worked out so far.

Eventually, I started getting a few work orders. I was pretty clueless at first. I got an initial secure and I didn't have any knobs or padlocks or lockboxes. So I got them to re-assign and I was told I should probably go to someplace like Bargainlocks.com (I think mfssupply.com is another) and order stuff. So after about $150 in money spent, I could start doing property preservation for the Sister Brothers.

I am still pretty new to it, but I made it through the winter making a decent amount of money. I get a lot of calls to go out of area... So far I haven't done it much. Here is a secret. Since I am in a rural area, I analyzed my local area's zip codes in great detail. All of the extreme rural areas I tried to ensure were not on my list. I tried to select just the ones in my favorite areas, mainly in towns. I think most of the other contractors just chose the county or counties they are near and it is a BIG mistake. You can pick and choose on your setup page where you work. The very first call I had with the Five girls was 100+ miles out of my way and it was an initial secure. I said no way, I don't even know what to bring. I could do it now, but no way Jose until I did some on the job training.

Of course I am describing this work as a part-time ordeal. There is no way I want to do this full time, as I am busy with normal stuff. I don't see how or why I would depend on these Five Guys to be my sole income.

Here is how I think I am making the most money: not on the initial secures per se, but on the add-ons. Like dryer vents, roof repairs, tarping, padlocks of outbuildings, and moving personals. Trashouts aren't the greatest, because you need the most manpower and overhead. But I made good on a reverse mortgage in good condition once that had lots of exterior wood/tree debris. I tend to bid high no matter what it is. I am in this to make extra bucks, not feed a family. I see a lot of advice saying don't feed a family on this job, and I would agree.

I take about 120 to 150 pictures on initial secures. I spend 4 hours on the computer writing and filling in things in Zephyr software after a secure. So a lot of this is driving, computing, emails, printing, and phone calls. You better have a few guys who can learn how to take good pics and do the quick and dirty parts.

So far, I am loving shrubs, tarps, swimming pools, and locks. Debris, roof patches, electrical things are so-so. Winterizing, mowing, snow removal, spraying bleach, and toilets are meh... blah... ewee. It's working out for now, but I am literally not quitting my day job or five. Ah, Brothers.

It's best to keep all of those things in stock you use a lot (locks galore, tarps, winterizing stuff) and only buy supplies from online stores. I will save my comments on dealing with the cubicle people... They are roughly the same as the ones in other threads about another national. But if I might sum it up in a nutshell?!?

  1. Do your job and invoice for it. If you goof up, don't sweat. They may not notice. You may be able to photoshop something on the upload.
  2. When you get the kickback email, push back. Right or wrong, tell them why it's bogus, against what you learned in training, or how you've done it that way a lot/always. They changed the rules. You are Tommy Lasorda.
  3. They will usually tell you to do it anyway or you won't get paid.
  4. Do it (or re-do it) anyway. Ask for a later deadline. (This is key)
  5. Give them a reason to like you once you submit the new results. Like all of a sudden, you learned your lesson and they won.
  6. Always push back. They sometimes fold.
  7. Bid high and bid often. I got an order for a second bid once after I had already bid a huge debris removal. I called and asked them what was up with this idea or was it a mistake, and they said just submit the 2nd bid. In other words, the Bank thought there were multiple bids, but it was just me versus me. Guess who got the bid? Guess who had extra money in time for Christmas!?
That's what I do. Take it or leave it.

(I do work for the 5 Amigos)
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 06:48 AM
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Hope you continue to have success with them.

We worked with them for about 5 years. Submitting duplicate bids under different or no name is something we stopped doing for them and we told them why.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:32 AM
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Refuse a few work orders or cut bids and see how it goes. They immediately threaten to charge you back.

There is no way you can be doing VOLUME if you are spending 4 hours on a computer uoading.

I literally don't have 4hrs a week of free time let alone in a day.

It's working for you because you are new and think it's easy. Just like the guy who started dating my ex just wait. They will wear you down like being water boarded.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 10:32 AM
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You have to be a YES man/woman to work for the children.


Yes i'll improperly remove moldy sheetrock from a basement and contaminate the rest of the house along the way.

Yes i'll roll on KILZ over that discoloration (MOLD)

Yes i'll do the initial secure even though the broker says the house is closing Friday.

Yes i'll do an initial secure on a house that has already sold and closed.

Yes i'll submit a second bid on the property i submitted the 1st bid on last week. (fraud/ Not a competitive bid per HUD regs)

Yes i'll remove personals as debris PRE-Sale.

Say no to ANY of these request and they will put you on a "level 2 hold" (whatever that is) and then they will cut you off when you refuse to comply and they will look for reasons to charge you back.......
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 10:36 AM
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Here is a sample of a couple e-mails i got from them on 2nd bids.

"Here is the work order we discussed over the phone to complete a True Second Bid no later than 9/2/12 under a different letterhead then the original bid with the details listed in the work order for exterior debris removal at a higher price then your original bid. You will receive a $25.00 trip charge for completing this order, if no work can be completed vendor is still to be paid $25 trip fee. If you have any questions or concerns about this order please contact your state representative *** ******* (****@fiveonline.com), 586-354-****; Results must include completed paperwork and labeled photo's uploaded to Zephyr."


"I have a second bid in ****,MT I need done. You did the first bid on it so what I need is what we call a true second bid. Basically you bid against yourself and you put it on a different company letter head than the first. You word it just like the first (wording is on the work order). No photos required. And it would pay a $25 trip charge.

Can you help me with that?

***** ***

Five Brothers Mortgage Company Services and Securing, Inc.
Vendor Maintenance
Recruiter"
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 10:40 AM
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Excerpt from HUD guidelines.....

"the Mortgagee should obtain two independent competitive bids. If the Mortgagee utilizes a field service company that firm, may provide one of the bids. The Mortgagee should obtain a second independent and competitive bid and submit the bids to the appropriate M&M contractor with an over-allowable request. Field service companies or contractors may not submit second bids directly to the M&M contractor. This violates the integrity of HUDís requirement for an independent and competitive bid process."
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 11:19 AM
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You went ahead and stated what I didn't.

There is no legal maneuvering to get out of something like that. I had dozens of emails just like that, and I was always amazed that they were willing to put that into print. A "True" second bid may be some legal jargon they were advised to use, but a pig is still a pig, red bow or not.
Of course everyone's experience will be different with a company, but if a National is willing to present double bids to a government entity, how much do you really think you are worth to them?
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GTX63 View Post
You went ahead and stated what I didn't.

There is no legal maneuvering to get out of something like that. I had dozens of emails just like that, and I was always amazed that they were willing to put that into print. A "True" second bid may be some legal jargon they were advised to use, but a pig is still a pig, red bow or not.
Of course everyone's experience will be different with a company, but if a National is willing to present double bids to a government entity, how much do you really think you are worth to them?


GTX63, There are MANY people out there that think this is a non-issue because the 1st bid goes in under 5 childrens name and the 2nd bid goes under your name but it does NOT negate the fact that it IS NOT a competitive bid! What's to stop Joe Hack Contractor from putting in a $20K bid on a $10K job and a week later put in a 2nd bid for $21K on the same $10K job? Hud has made the rules for a reason and many of these companies skirt the rules all the time!!!
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I realized the implications of what may be happening. But on my second bid, I was literally bidding a second time. Just higher. I wasn't sure what all the ins and outs of their bidding process was at the time. But I assumed that they may find it difficult in certain areas to get other contractors to bid some things. I am rural. So I can imagine they have a tough time getting bids submitted if their hirelings are tied up.

Not every contractor can give them a bid on some of these larger debris removals. I am assuming a lot of people in the industry are 1 or 2 person crews with limited resources for heavy machinery. I am able to run a big crew given enough notice and enough $$$. In fact, this job was done with some help from my family, then my 3-man grounds crew for a few hours, and then 3 hours of heavy machinery work at $200 per hour and we did the last part in the pouring rain. Logistically, somewhat difficult with a lot of trips, but that's why I bid it high and made it my Christmas bonus.

(I do work for the 5 Amigos)
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 02:12 PM
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If they don't have the contractors to cover the rural areas then they shouldn't tell their client they can cover it plain and simple..............
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