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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Prices for lawn cuts are as follows:

Lot sizes 0 - 5000 sq ft $20
Lot sizes 5001 - over $25
Lots over 1 acre: Cut only perimeter and bid the rest


Please find attached photo requirements.

We would pay every Friday and would like to have 14 days turn around instead of 30-45 from this industry standard, therefore, it is more convey ant to you.


My Response:

I am sorry the pricing is ridiculous and surely this is some kind of joke? We pay our crews more than this for even the smallest of grass cuts. We do not have a client that pays less than $80.00 for a grass cut. We welcome more work but these are slave wages. I figured this was probably the case because if the work was good I would already have it. I was hoping that you were a company who worked directly for banks. From your pricing I can see that you are just another regional who takes work from a national then subs it out to people desperate and ignorant enough to work for nothing.

Why do these guys not just sign up with Scamguard themselves? Why would anyone take work from you when they can just sign up direct?

I hope you guys go out of business very soon. Companies that follow your business model are a cancer on the industry.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 05:44 PM
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Here goes

I don't want to start a heated argument but Nationals are no longer and will not do any contracts with single local companies anymore. The regionals have the bones now and give the Nat's such a good discount and large coverage areas that there is no longer a market for locals to have a chance. I am new to this site but have 5yrs. under my belt "which is still considered a newbie" and I hear all of this but I see no good changes coming, only worse. I know from reading many pages of info here that Craigslist Hack is very good at what he does but are you concerned that no matter how good you are and have good relations with your clients that the greed will soon overcome them and you will be at the same situation. I am not picking a fight but looking for advise on your future thoughts of this industry.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovashut View Post
I don't want to start a heated argument but Nationals are no longer and will not do any contracts with single local companies anymore. The regionals have the bones now and give the Nat's such a good discount and large coverage areas that there is no longer a market for locals to have a chance. I am new to this site but have 5yrs. under my belt "which is still considered a newbie" and I hear all of this but I see no good changes coming, only worse. I know from reading many pages of info here that Craigslist Hack is very good at what he does but are you concerned that no matter how good you are and have good relations with your clients that the greed will soon overcome them and you will be at the same situation. I am not picking a fight but looking for advise on your future thoughts of this industry.
I hear what you are saying and I can understand why you feel that way but you are wrong about the nationals looking for regionals. I speak with Nationals, Realtors, and contractors everyday. The thing I hear from even the worst of companies is local local local. They don't WANT regionals anymore they are abandoning that business model in droves.

I have been asked by multiple nationals to recommend local contractors. MCS recently contacted us and we turned them down. The first thing they asked was if we knew anyone else. I told them I was turning them down because of their low pay and ridiculous QC so I wan't going to pass that on to anyone else.

Now if you want to know WHY I think the nationals are abandoning the regionals in my opinion it's due to them taking larger discounts and requiring more and more paperwork. They have basically KILLED the regionals business model in some cases. If the nationals take more money which they are starting to do they HAVE to go directly to the contractor. They are doing just that. I can name dozens and NONE of them are Safeguard, MCS, 5 Brothers, or FAS!!!

PLEASE no one Private message me. It's not my job to find you guys work. I get dozens of private messages each week from guys looking for help with work. My advice is get out of the industry. GO LOCAL!!! If you are working for a regional and you can read this you will get what you deserve. If you can read this you are on this site which is FULL of information. There is no such thing as a good National and crap rolls down hill so HOW COULD THERE POSSIBLY be a good regional? COME ON GUYS!!! I don't get it.

Sorry to rant and again this is nothing against you, I think you just have to change your mindset.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 07:02 PM
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re

Honestly if all they wanted was a blow and go, and the properties were within about a 60mile radius I'd probably do it. I know I can hit 45-50 small city lots in a day so long as they don't expect much more then corner photos and a cut. The problem is they want so much other crap that goes along with it. Look at the new MCS crap with photos, if that applies to lawn cuts you could get screwed REAL quick.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurumkin View Post
Honestly if all they wanted was a blow and go, and the properties were within about a 60mile radius I'd probably do it. I know I can hit 45-50 small city lots in a day so long as they don't expect much more then corner photos and a cut. The problem is they want so much other crap that goes along with it. Look at the new MCS crap with photos, if that applies to lawn cuts you could get screwed REAL quick.
Then you have to upload! don't forget that. I'm sure they are subbing Safeguard work so you know they will be finding new reasons to send you back and thousands of reasons not to pay you.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 07:47 PM
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There is no such thing as a blow and go when doing work for nationals.

I also will not recommend specific companies. What may work for me in Missouri may not work for someone else in New Mexico.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 08:27 PM
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The regional business model was born during the Foreclosure boom/bust in the late 2000's, volume was the only thing keeping it alive during those times.

Now that the volume has slowed down which in turn has caused profits to all but evaporate, the business model it was based on has changed, which intern has caused prices to drop on services rendered. This was inevitable.

Lets look at the side effects of a leveling out of foreclosures, buczek, ASAP, CPR, Homestar, these are just a few that are falling are have fallen. Those that are popping up now are hoping that what once worked yrs ago will still work today,Not going to happen, let take SEAS for an example, they are constantly looking for people running adds always, never ending adds, eastern states is a another one, PKMT, the list goes on.

Social media has changed the way people and company's interact, the one thing regional's and nationals have yet learned to deal with. I'm in 3 states and have been called a regional myself, but im not. I have a vary close group of contractors that works for me and other company's and a i pay vary well. Very simple model and it works and i have the ability to change as needed to make it work.

Take notice that as the economy improves some what the pool of contractors decrees, putting even more pressure on the over all profits.

Regional's are doomed to fail.

The best advice is to go local stay local, dominate your area, know your area and diversify.Large National Company's gravitate toward owners more so than the company itself.( if you know what i mean)

Its just not our industry that is moving toward a localized business model, it the the whole economy that is moving toward a localization of services.

The national heath care law is just one example, one size never fits all, causes more problems that it fixes. it to is on its death bed, those in Washington just don't know it yet. Just like regional's don't know it yet, their always the last to know.

My EO carrier which i just spoke to last week said that EO claims are threw the roof. The main cause of the spike is cheap labor, hack work, CL adds, trying to save a buck.

Money is like water flowing down hill it always thats the path of least resistance, EO claims and hack work is considered resistance.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 11:27 AM
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Craigslist Hack, Thank-you for your input and I will try to train my way of thinking. I work for 1 of the regionals and during the last few years they have become very touchy on allowing contractors to talk to Nationals they work for and I understand that and with out that contact we sometimes get led astray. I assume to keep us happy to keep getting a % of my hard earned money. For this is 1 reason I sought out this web-site, and I must say has very good info. If you know of any good "post's" to direct me to read up more about this issue I would love to read them. Once again thank-you
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovashut View Post
Craigslist Hack, Thank-you for your input and I will try to train my way of thinking. I work for 1 of the regionals and during the last few years they have become very touchy on allowing contractors to talk to Nationals they work for and I understand that and with out that contact we sometimes get led astray. I assume to keep us happy to keep getting a % of my hard earned money. For this is 1 reason I sought out this web-site, and I must say has very good info. If you know of any good "post's" to direct me to read up more about this issue I would love to read them. Once again thank-you
I feel you man. You are exactly right about the regionals. They don't want you talking to the nationals and they feed you a line so you think it's their way or nothing. There is NEVER a good reason to work for a regional.

Alitsource and Corelogic are hard to get on with and they pay pretty good. They probably won't work with a small company. So what? As a small guy you will still make more money working for NFR, AIM Your Way, AMS, MSI, IMS, or half a dozen other companies than you will subbing Corelogic or Altisource work through someone. You also gain control of your bids and your future (somewhat). Regionals are DONE I just got a wells email regarding property audits and QC inspections to a standard that regionals will never be able to provide.

There is no way a guy can do all that they want done for what they want to pay and give the regional their 30%. The numbers don't work! The nationals know that and they are talking to the little guys and taking them direct. The term I keep hearing is "Contractors who are personally involved in their properties" that's boots on the ground! That is good for the guy in the truck and bad for the guy in the cubicle.

I'm not NEARLY as QC conscious as most of the guys on this board. If I really wanted to do good work I would open a fine furniture business not dig through peoples moldy trash. Am I capable of doing great work? Yes but not for the prices the nationals pay.

I don't know which regional you work for but I do know a couple of companies out there who try real hard. They are the exception not the rule. We still occasionally take work from ZVN, and once in a while do a favor for a company out of Florida. The thing is the work orders have gotten so complicated I can't really afford to help anybody out. One return and I'm in the hole for being a nice guy.

I don't know that I can recommend any threads but what I would say is LISTEN to the vets here. Comprehend that is WILL happen to you. I used to think that alot of guys didn't have business sense or that they managed their companies wrong and I could do better. Then I met some guys that owned a regional. They had trust fund money, business degrees, and they hired GOOD contractors to work for them. They did and still do everything to the best of their ability and they are losing money hand over fist. These guys are smart and have twice as many resources as i do. It really made me realize that this business eats people alive. Even the best companies struggle to survive in this industry. That being said you have to ask yourself why you do this and when you will stop.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 12:09 PM
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A couple thought come to mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuse View Post
The regional business model was born during the Foreclosure boom/bust in the late 2000's, volume was the only thing keeping it alive during those times.
Another way of saying "Never sleep with someone who stays in a motel."

Now that the volume has slowed down which in turn has caused profits to all but evaporate, the business model it was based on has changed, which intern has caused prices to drop on services rendered. This was inevitable.
Profits have only thinned for the contractor at the bottom. Nationals were refining ways to keep more in their pockets 15 years ago because they knew there was a bottom to the well. One thing they are very good at is foresight.

Lets look at the side effects of a leveling out of foreclosures, buczek, ASAP, CPR, Homestar, these are just a few that are falling are have fallen. Those that are popping up now are hoping that what once worked yrs ago will still work today,Not going to happen, let take SEAS for an example, they are constantly looking for people running adds always, never ending adds, eastern states is a another one, PKMT, the list goes on.
Several companies above failed as a result of greed and poor ownership. Many of the regional start ups are run by former mid management types from the nationals who believe they can make their own pots of gold thru inside knowledge of how to manipulate and scheme.
Regional's are doomed to fail.
Regionals are 21st century carpet baggers.

The best advice is to go local stay local, dominate your area, know your area and diversify.Large National Company's gravitate toward owners more so than the company itself.( if you know what i mean)

Its just not our industry that is moving toward a localized business model, it the the whole economy that is moving toward a localization of services.
I'd have to respectively disagree. Nationalization of products and services is increasing very rapidly. But in preservation, the nationals will always outlast the regional. Regionals are nothing more than a step above us, and a necessary convenience to a National.

My EO carrier which i just spoke to last week said that EO claims are threw the roof. The main cause of the spike is cheap labor, hack work, CL adds, trying to save a buck.
Which is why the term "additional insured" is so important. It was intended to insulate the client, but it is more of a revenue enhancer; a back door money maker in the same manner as a government surcharge or user fee isn't a tax but it may as well be.

.

Last edited by GTX63; 04-04-2014 at 12:12 PM.
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