Hmmm, Some case law, Employee VS Sub........ - REO Property Preservation Forum
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Hmmm, Some case law, Employee VS Sub........

VERY VERY INTERESTING!!!! Here is one case that DIRECTLY affects Property Preservation. Specifically REO work. Lets hear some arguments. Case law is established. Nobody can deny that.........

"The investigation determined maids were paid a flat rate per house cleaned, regardless of the amount of time it took, and were not compensated for all hours worked, including travel time between cleaning assignments. These practices resulted in maids earning less than the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Employees did not receive additional compensation for overtime hours, and the company failed to maintain accurate payroll records."

http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/whd/WHD20141338.htm

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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The only thing i can see different than P&P is the company supplied vehicles. Still the part of them paying flat rate is what i am looking at.....
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 11:42 AM
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The only thing i can see different than P&P is the company supplied vehicles. Still the part of them paying flat rate is what i am looking at.....
Unfortunately, these are just middle men that got slapped. I can't wait for SG get that same fine, this is why we left P&P. We were running at 0.1 per hour after we paid our people
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 08:18 PM
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With further training in employment law you would understand why your post is irrelevant.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 09:12 PM
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Well, there is a subsantive difference.

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The only thing i can see different than P&P is the company supplied vehicles. Still the part of them paying flat rate is what i am looking at.....
At $38-45 and the average maid taking between 15-30 minutes, and if it takes 30, there are extras. After expenses, you are making more like $30-35 and hour. That's a real substantive difference. I think you want to find a parallel so badly, you are seeing one that is not there. There are several other material differences and you are just not seeing them. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are bad actors, and shady dealers, and even some grey areas, but they occur predominantly at the lower tiers. And the smaller shops where people under direct supervision, are paid as 1099, when they should be W-2's. I would bet the farm that a lot of the posters here complaining about national pricing and national mis-classification have employees that they give 1099's and you damn well know it's true. I have been tempted to do it myself.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 10:19 PM
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With further training in employment law you would understand why your post is irrelevant.
falls under under same policy as waiters. Legally speaking. So yes you are correct. so i guess you do realize why SG gets away with what they do in the end it falls under performance issues.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 10:21 PM
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At $38-45 and the average maid taking between 15-30 minutes, and if it takes 30, there are extras. After expenses, you are making more like $30-35 and hour. That's a real substantive difference. I think you want to find a parallel so badly, you are seeing one that is not there. There are several other material differences and you are just not seeing them. Now don't get me wrong, I know there are bad actors, and shady dealers, and even some grey areas, but they occur predominantly at the lower tiers. And the smaller shops where people under direct supervision, are paid as 1099, when they should be W-2's. I would bet the farm that a lot of the posters here complaining about national pricing and national mis-classification have employees that they give 1099's and you damn well know it's true. I have been tempted to do it myself.
Low doesn't prohibit paying on 1099, but there is a difference between sub and employee. Otherwise this case would not be relevant. IRS defines clearly these differences. I use subs all the time, but I don't dictate them what and how they do. I do require quality work and warranty
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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With further training in employment law you would understand why your post is irrelevant.

Unfortunately your wrong. I have been working with our states dept. of labor and industry and they are VERY interested in how these nationals are running the game. In fact 22 states are working with the US Dept. of Labor investigating these violations. Among many points they are looking at is the point of a national pulling work from you if you refuse an assignment...........

Here is the map of states looking into these issues..... http://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/miscl.../#stateDetails
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 05:43 AM
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I am quire aware of the law, ans also quite aware of it's abuses.

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Low doesn't prohibit paying on 1099, but there is a difference between sub and employee. Otherwise this case would not be relevant. IRS defines clearly these differences. I use subs all the time, but I don't dictate them what and how they do. I do require quality work and warranty
and it isn't just P&P, not by a long shot. Just take a quick look down any employment or classifieds, and you will see "contractors" blatantly advertising for 1099 employees, and even outlining the job, clearly defining a position that fits the employee definition. Of course there is some tangential connection with some P&P company somewhere,in this case. The ruling in this case was based on overtime and minimum wage. This appears to be one of those private maid companies, that takes the van around and drops people off, and comes back for them at specific times, clearly that is a regular direction of work hours, and use of company equipment, and supplies. Hell there's a good chance there is a uniform. Here is their website http://www.supermaid.com/index.php?Page=Services Not typically anything like you would find in the P&P world. I also use subs, but they are established private businesses, I also sub work from other contractor doing work from nationals, if they are willing to pay the rate and terms. We all know where the lines are, I did not specifically point my finger at anyone. My statement however is true, and you know it is true. The national companies for the most part are not the main abusers of this law, no way shape or form. It is the guy getting work from the nationals, and subbing it to some other Tom, Dick or Harry, and often Tom, Dick or Harry does not even have insurance or a license.. I see it all the time, and I'm sure you do too.

Last edited by Ohnojim; 01-20-2015 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Added link to Supermaid
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 05:47 AM
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You are going to see enforcement increase as the

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Originally Posted by mtmtnman View Post
Unfortunately your wrong. I have been working with our states dept. of labor and industry and they are VERY interested in how these nationals are running the game. In fact 22 states are working with the US Dept. of Labor investigating these violations. Among many points they are looking at is the point of a national pulling work from you if you refuse an assignment...........

Here is the map of states looking into these issues..... http://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/miscl.../#stateDetails

employer mandate of ACA, Obamacare kicks in. What did you think they were going to do with the tens of thousands of new IRS agents the law creates?
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