NLRB Ruling with "Joint Employers" - REO Property Preservation Forum
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-28-2015, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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NLRB Ruling with "Joint Employers"

Has anyone been following this case and this weeks ruling against McDonalds?

I was having my Friday afternoon discussion with a local High Profile Atty and this decision was discussed. Basically it interprets what a "joint employer" is pertaining to franchises but I asked "How would this ruling apply to the P&P Contractor who is not a franchise but a glorified sub-contractor being told where to go, what to do, why to do something and have it done in a defined timeframe?"

His answer was "That's an employee so why do you ask?"

My reply "Want another HUGE case?"

The wheels are turning.

If you haven't read the decision you should. Change the word franchisee to sub-contractor.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-28-2015, 10:11 PM
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If you haven't read the decision you should. Change the word franchisee to sub-contractor.[/QUOTE]

OK, I just read the ruling and it makes my skin crawl. I don't understand these things well but here's what I see.

Franchise owners just got screwed. They will now be under much tighter corporate control because they are now under threat of unions. Unions have there place but when they so often make it impossible to fire a total loser they are out of place. Gone are the advantages of be "locally owned and operated".

How good a similar ruling in our industry be a good thing? Possibly bringing some crooked gnats and regionals to a place called honesty would be good, but what I see is more regulation, standardized pricing, and less negotiation. The ability to negotiate is the one big tool we still have in the bag and I don't want to lose it to some silly union that doesn't allow me to set myself apart from the rest of the craigslist losers out there. (Not you Craigslist Hack)

Like I said, I know my knowledge is limited, so I am all ears to any other opinions on how a similar ruling in our industry would play out.
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-29-2015, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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No this isn't a good thing IMO either. I think the franchises just got screwed and it will affect a ton of related businesses.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-29-2015, 09:09 PM
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To Quote: "Thomas Sowell"

While capitalism has a visible cost -- profit -- that does not exist under socialism, socialism has an invisible cost -- inefficiency -- that gets weeded out by losses and bankruptcy under capitalism. The fact that most goods are more widely affordable in a capitalist economy implies that profit is less costly than inefficiency. Put differently, profit is a price paid for efficiency.

The NLRB is there to protect the employee from the over reach of Business, also to help provide the voice for the voiceless. But like most Government run bureaucracies in the end they become huge money makers for lawyers and bureaucrats in Washington. And most importantly they hurt the least fortunate people among us trying to make it out of poverty and the young, mostly the young.

While its a well known fact that the NLRB is unfairly stacked with socialist masquerading as Democrats under this current administration with the intention of putting as many business out of business as possible. While at the same time putting as many people on the government payroll, if the form of more red tape, rules and regs, unemployment, EBT cards, welfare,ETC.

Remember Twinkies, a perfect example, before they declared bankruptcy the NLRB tried to sue hostess to stop the sale off and bankruptcy to save the union jobs. The unions refused to renegotiate the contract's which was mathematically impossible to sustain under the current business climate. It took a judge to come in and over ride the law suet and allow the sale off the company. So in the end all the Unionized employees lost their jobs.

Here is another example of Government bureaucrat's involved in the free market. Remember when the told you that health insurance was going to go down when the government took it over.. Great idea was it not.. yeah gonna make insurance affordable for everyone right!!

Well take a look at this graft below of the increases in policy is just some states not all.



Oh and it only going to get worst from here on out.

And this house McDonald's is going to deal with the new NLRB ruling see pic below. Meet your new cashier. Yeah all fast food companies gearing up for the new rules


Just one more so you get the point.



Government is so smart, so broken, so self serving, because they know best right.

So the unintended consequence is less jobs.. working as planned..
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-29-2015, 09:40 PM
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This ruling seems like a good candidate to be thrown out later in an appeals court.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 08-31-2015, 08:06 AM
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This ruling seems like a good candidate to be thrown out later in an appeals court.
The unions have way too much clout and I doubt they will let this one get tossed. With this new opportunity to reach into corporate franchises and organize unions, no way they will pass up the potential billions of $ in the coffers. ...just my opinion.
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-04-2015, 08:00 PM
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A few things need to be said about this ruling.

1. The ruling simply makes it so that MCD is partially liable when their franchisee commit wage and hour violations.

2. IMO, this ruling gives unions very little help in organizing. The only thing this ruling does that could be viewed as good for unions, is it pust a more responsible entity (Corporate MCD) in the line of fire when/if Franchisee violate labor laws when workers attempt to organize. This could soften franchisees because they would no longer use illegal tactics such as captive audience meeting and threats of dismissal as a tool stop organizing. If they did MCD corporate would also be liable and be very upset with that Franchisee. This ruling gives no power or right to unions they didn't already have.

As far as the new kiosk. Everyone knows they're coming, regardless of what employees are paid. As someone who used to be a POS tech for MCDs, I can tell you taking orders is not as big a part of what those employees do, as some may think.

When someone wants to return their food for whatever reason, lobby needs cleaning, bathrooms need cleaning, trash taken out of lobby trash can, etc... kiosk cant do that and these are all things that folks who take orders, do. Its very sad to once again see on here the attitude that American workers should basically be thankful to have any job that pay anything. Very sad.

This is a good ruling. But as with any positive ruling for low paid workers, it makes those who feel they are skilled workers look in the mirror. It makes some people finally realize that they are probably getting screwed more than the MCD workers as many so called "skilled" workers are getting paid much less than was paid for some of these same jobs 20-30 years ago. This is why many people frown on min wage workers seeing improvements in their pay.
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-04-2015, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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I believe Minimum Wage should be abolished. Let the workforce determine the wage scale---if the employer is offering $3.00 an hour then don't take the job and economic conditions will require the employer to hire at higher rates or fail due to no workforce.

I think the ruling will ruin the current franchise model. Say you own a franchised campground with 5 FT employees now that small business will be required to supply all the benefits of their "joint employer". That will apply to all the small mom & pop franchise business owners. With this ruling the small franchise owner becomes nothing more than an employee of the Master Franchise.

You can't repeal a NLRB ruling since it's not a LAW. It can be thrown out AFTER a franchise sues the NLRB and it works its way through the court system. Years in most cases. Another Government Agency who "legally" has no right to impose a "law" without Congressional vote. Ahhhh our Government at its best.
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-05-2015, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wannabe View Post
Has anyone been following this case and this weeks ruling against McDonalds?

I was having my Friday afternoon discussion with a local High Profile Atty and this decision was discussed. Basically it interprets what a "joint employer" is pertaining to franchises but I asked "How would this ruling apply to the P&P Contractor who is not a franchise but a glorified sub-contractor being told where to go, what to do, why to do something and have it done in a defined timeframe?"

His answer was "That's an employee so why do you ask?"

My reply "Want another HUGE case?"

The wheels are turning.

If you haven't read the decision you should. Change the word franchisee to sub-contractor.
Tell your attorney to contact me...I'm actually writing an article on this and I'm involved in two lawsuits involving Nationals on the IC/employee issue.
FAS has already settled....AMSMCS are now in the sites

and If I may...I'd like to use your statement in the article???

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 09-05-2015, 09:38 AM
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Actually I think you guys are reading more into this then what it is...

What you have to worry about is if you are subbing the work back out...
for those of you completing the services or what is known as Labor/W-2 company like ours you'll be in for benefits etc...

I'm not sure why everyone sees doom and gloom in this respect. everyone bitches about pricing and the fact you can not really negotiate numbers or bill for your services according to your costs of doing business. Yet everyone balks at coming together and standing together in a Union type fashion to achieve better conditions....

The bottom line is the Nationals, Regionals, and otherwise unspecified order mills have been leading you around like a bull with a ring in it's nose for the past 8 years...Ever since Eric Miller has been involved with NAMFS...and let's face it...the Membership of NAMFS are the ones providing the work to your company's.

If you are a true IC then you say f*** off to the nitwits...We refuse to bow to any of the pressure they spit out...In addition we have found several clients in the private sector that could care less if you're an ex-felon they want quality timely service...Oh and BTW neither do the Mortgage company's we work with directly...

In regards to this ruling...this is nothing more than a clarification of WHOM is an employer....and yes everyone providing you with a work order is an employer....

While it will have a serious affect across the board as I have filed a complaint on the industry with the NLRB and so have others I know...if you're one of the 7,000 people receiving WO's from SGP you're probably in line for some back pay and benefits....

Let me pose this...would it be so terrible to for your company/you to be paid $125 for a wint? $50 a yard????? That is what a Minimum standard for pricing would do...

Not sure why everyone wants to fight the organization issue in this industry....but it is going to happen with or without those whom do not want it....

NAMFS has serious IRS issues and will be exposed for the fraud the members have perpetrated upon Labor while the organization did nothing to investigate the bad members and remove them from the organization per the Bi-Laws of NAMFS

NAMFS has been caught filing fraudulent IRS 909 form about the organization and in fact has illegal members listed as Board of Director Members. so.....

How exactly this is going to affect all of us????? I believe we are all going to be ruled an employee...The courts have already ruled on this issue and it is only a matter of time...so why not start organizing in your local areas???
If you organize before any Union people come in then you tell them...sorry but we have it handled....

Look at the bigger picture here if you will....this is not a bad thing or ruling...
Not only will the numbers come into line the theft and graft but illegal back charging will stop....

Just food for thought...

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