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Discussion Starter #1
Give me a minute, I am working on moving a bunch of posts
 

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Glad to see that all the non P&P guys still come around here to spread their wisdom. Without their vast knowledge, where would we be. :thumbsup:
 

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RichR said:
Glad to see that all the non P&P guys still come around here to spread their wisdom. Without their vast knowledge, where would we be. :thumbsup:
Glad to see that you guys still need us to spread wisdom. Any time we can help, let us know.

I am still trying to unravel the mystery of P&P. Apparently you can only understand if you do re-cuts for $14.

But here's what I know. You sign up with companies who send you work like lawn maintenance, board up, winterizing, and the like. They require you to jump through a million hoops for little pay, you then go on the internet and whine about the whole process and that it's not fair. Fill in the blanks or just say that there is no way for our feeble minds to grasp the complicated thing called P&P.

BTW: last time I looked this is the land of opportunity. The first step of getting out of the hole is to stop digging!
 

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TNTSERVICES said:
There isn't anything special or traditional about estimating. You have overhead that needs to be covered, you have payroll that needs to be covered, you have growth that needs to be covered, and you have profit that needs to be made. How it is any different? Either you can cover those items or you: go bankrupt, have angry employees (or go hungry yourself), don't plan on buying anything new or to make your job better or more profitable, or you don't like to save for a rainy day or your later years.

I don't see why P&P guys think that their profession is special and the normal rules of business don't apply. It seems to me that there are better ways to make money, but you would rather take what someone gives you and complain about the pay and their expectations you will forever be miserable.
You do not have a clue. For over 15 years I worked for commercial GCs, Drywall contractors and Framing contractors. I have managed entire companies and estimated thousands of commercial construction projects and managed hundreds of them. My projects ranged from a few hundred dollars to over eight million dollars.

While the same rules apply as far as OH&P. P&P is a different animal altogether. One of the big differences is the volume and the deadlines.
Picture having 50 jobs awarded to you on the same day and all of them have to be completed within a week. You have to provide hundreds of pictures documenting all phases of the work from the start to the finish.

The pictures have to be date stamped and uploaded in a specific format by a specific deadline or they are rejected and you do not get paid or you are fined for late submissions.

Then someone who has no clue as to what your job entails reviews the pictures and cuts your price when they feel the pictures do not justify the costs.

Any jobs that are not completed on time result in either a back charge or refusal to pay.

Since you agreed to cover all work in a specific territory when you decline a job they hire someone else to do it and if it costs more than the price you bid, or the price they estimated you would have bid if you did not bid it, you are charged the difference.

There is little you can do about the back charges because it is taken from your next draw and if you complain too much, or lien a property, they will never ever give you work again, which sounds fine until you realize that you are going to be without any work until you find a new customer to replace them and if you do not find someone fast your competition will be doing a trashout on your house.

P&P is a special kind of business. The simple fact is that most regular contractors could not handle this type of work because it does not follow the rules of traditional work or business. It has its own rules. It is chaotic.

In traditional contracting you know about most jobs weeks or months in advance of starting them and you have an organized schedule to follow that orchestrates the order of the work and keeps the project flowing.

In P&P it is about as close to complete chaos as you can get and still have a plan. Almost every decision is reactionary because you have little or no time to plan.

How would your jobs run if every day you showed up at the office and had to check your emails and fax machine to see what you and your crew was going to be doing that day and for the next few days?

At most you usually only get a few days to plan and proceed with a project.

P&P operates on a seven day schedule and there is no overtime, ever. Period. Charge overtime if you want, you just won't get the work.

I find it comical when the regular contractors stray outside their areas of expertise and offer sarcastic or, at least from the perspective of a P&P Contractor, just plain stupid comments or advice.
 
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TNTSERVICES said:
Glad to see that you guys still need us to spread wisdom. Any time we can help, let us know.

I am still trying to unravel the mystery of P&P. Apparently you can only understand if you do re-cuts for $14.

But here's what I know. You sign up with companies who send you work like lawn maintenance, board up, winterizing, and the like. They require you to jump through a million hoops for little pay, you then go on the internet and whine about the whole process and that it's not fair. Fill in the blanks or just say that there is no way for our feeble minds to grasp the complicated thing called P&P.

BTW: last time I looked this is the land of opportunity. The first step of getting out of the hole is to stop digging!
I was thinking that this was so fitting

Chapter 1

I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost ... I am helpless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter 2

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I am in the same place.
But it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.

Chapter 3

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in ... it's a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.

Chapter 4

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.

Chapter 5

I walk down another street.


~ Portia Nelson ~
 
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Gypsos said:
You do not have a clue.

One of the big differences is the volume and the deadlines.

Picture having 50 jobs awarded to you on the same day and all of them have to be completed within a week. You have to provide hundreds of pictures documenting all phases of the work from the start to the finish.

The pictures have to be date stamped and uploaded in a specific format by a specific deadline or they are rejected and you do not get paid or you are fined for late submissions.

Then someone who has no clue as to what your job entails reviews the pictures and cuts your price when they feel the pictures do not justify the costs.

Any jobs that are not completed on time result in either a back charge or refusal to pay.

Since you agreed to cover all work in a specific territory when you decline a job they hire someone else to do it and if it costs more than the price you bid, or the price they estimated you would have bid if you did not bid it, you are charged the difference.

There is little you can do about the back charges because it is taken from your next draw and if you complain too much, or lien a property, they will never ever give you work again, which sounds fine until you realize that you are going to be without any work until you find a new customer to replace them and if you do not find someone fast your competition will be doing a trashout on your house.

P&P is a special kind of business. The simple fact is that most regular contractors could not handle this type of work because it does not follow the rules of traditional work or business. It has its own rules. It is chaotic.

In traditional contracting you know about most jobs weeks or months in advance of starting them and you have an organized schedule to follow that orchestrates the order of the work and keeps the project flowing.

In P&P it is about as close to complete chaos as you can get and still have a plan. Almost every decision is reactionary because you have little or no time to plan.

How would your jobs run if every day you showed up at the office and had to check your emails and fax machine to see what you and your crew was going to be doing that day and for the next few days?

At most you usually only get a few days to plan and proceed with a project.

P&P operates on a seven day schedule and there is no overtime, ever. Period. Charge overtime if you want, you just won't get the work.
yes.....we know all this. Tell us something we DON'T.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Actually, tell us the reason that YOU would continue working in this environment. That's what we DON'T understand.
 
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Kent Whitten said:
Actually, tell us the reason that YOU would continue working in this environment. That's what we DON'T understand.
Here's what I don't understand... Are P&P pepes considered contractors...? :blink:... I thought this was Contractor Talk...
 

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Kent Whitten said:
Actually, tell us the reason that YOU would continue working in this environment. That's what we DON'T understand.
Actually I enjoy it. I started by accident when the idiots I worked for ran their company into the ground and I found myself out of work with no prospects. My kids were hungry, my house payment was late and someone offered me work.

I have found a niche in the market area I cover and I make it a point to do it better than everyone else in this area. I get all the work I want, my kids are no longer hungry and my house payment is current.

On the rare occasion I do lose on a job I am out less than $100. Not the thousands I lost because "You cannot afford to hire an attorney to sue us so we do not have to pay you."

Yeah, I will take this industry over the cesspit that the construction industry has become.
 

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Tech Dawg said:
Here's what I don't understand... Are P&P pepes considered contractors...? :blink:... I thought this was Contractor Talk...
The answer is yes. See below for clarification. Googles definition.

con·trac·tor/ˈkänˌtraktər/ Noun: A person or company that undertakes a contract to provide materials or labor to perform a service or do a job. Synonyms: entrepreneur
 
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Terrific! Glad you're happy with your industry. I love what I do, I'm like a pig in ****.
 

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I also love what I do, I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I have a passion for the P&P industry. A few of us have it figured out.
 

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One issue is that you only hear the negative things that people need help with, that's why they are posting their questions on the forum. No one is going to come on here and say "I just made a ton of money yesterday in P&P" as there is no need for them to post that.

The people making the money in this industry are place like "Good Choice Preservation". They are charging $60+ for an initial lawn cut and finding subs to do them for $14. They are making $46 per lawn cut and NOT LEAVING THEIR OFFICE. That is good money. IMHO people don't like to talk about the jobs that pay well due to the competitive nature of this industry. It depends on your location, but locally there aren't a significant number on contractors doing this so if another local company finds out who pays well, they may lose work.

I have completed 21 lawns for P&P in the last week, four less than $100 and the rest minimum $100, even after discount, 75% of these were average city lots. That's good money.
 

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This is the misconception that you guys have. You read the posts about the guys complaining about $14 re-cuts, have any of you actually taken the time to stop insulting others and read the HUD matrix, which is typically what the guys at the top are given, or do you accept the posts in this forum as gospel?

And as you asked, I will answer, "There is no way your feeble minds will grasp the complicated thing called P&P" by reading this forum.

TNTSERVICES said:
Glad to see that you guys still need us to spread wisdom. Any time we can help, let us know.

I am still trying to unravel the mystery of P&P. Apparently you can only understand if you do re-cuts for $14.

But here's what I know. You sign up with companies who send you work like lawn maintenance, board up, winterizing, and the like. They require you to jump through a million hoops for little pay, you then go on the internet and whine about the whole process and that it's not fair. Fill in the blanks or just say that there is no way for our feeble minds to grasp the complicated thing called P&P.

BTW: last time I looked this is the land of opportunity. The first step of getting out of the hole is to stop digging!
 

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SwiftRes said:
One issue is that you only hear the negative things that people need help with, that's why they are posting their questions on the forum. No one is going to come on here and say "I just made a ton of money yesterday in P&P" as there is no need for them to post that.
Every trade has negatives. We all have ranted on CT. However, why is it that P&P only discusses price and complains about their industry in one way or another?

Why not post about the nice $ you made, or the cool job that you just completed? Why not go ahead and post about the great companies to work for?
 
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TNTSERVICES said:
Every trade has negatives. We all have ranted on CT. However, why is it that P&P only discusses price and complains about their industry in one way or another?

Why not post about the nice $ you made, or the cool job that you just completed? Why not go ahead and post about the great companies to work for?
Does the P&P have a picture post section?
 

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SwiftRes said:
This is the misconception that you guys have. You read the posts about the guys complaining about $14 re-cuts, have any of you actually taken the time to stop insulting others and read the HUD matrix, which is typically what the guys at the top are given, or do you accept the posts in this forum as gospel?

And as you asked, I will answer, "There is no way your feeble minds will grasp the complicated thing called P&P" by reading this forum.
You statement didn't make sense. You never revealed the misconception.

Also, who have I insulted? How did I insult? Was it my asking questions? You guys are too sensitive.
 

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Pure and simple, competition. When you in your other trades are dealing with thousands of homeowners as potential customers, that's just fine to do. When there are a handful of potential customers that are worthwhile to work with, who would share?

Also, as far as only discussing price, you are usually reading posts from people new to the field that are trying to understand the industry. Unfortunately we aren't dealing with homeowners that you can sit in front of, give a presentation about your great company and why you should justify your price. We are dealing with a customer that can pay $X for a job as long as you can get it done within X days. If you can do that, you will get another job.

And others do post about "cool jobs", but maybe in a different way than you're used to. Our "cool jobs" are jobs with 300 CYD of debris, or some sort of wild damage to a property.



TNTSERVICES said:
Every trade has negatives. We all have ranted on CT. However, why is it that P&P only discusses price and complains about their industry in one way or another?

Why not post about the nice $ you made, or the cool job that you just completed? Why not go ahead and post about the great companies to work for?
 
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SwiftRes said:
This is the misconception that you guys have. You read the posts about the guys complaining about $14 re-cuts, have any of you actually taken the time to stop insulting others and read the HUD matrix, which is typically what the guys at the top are given, or do you accept the posts in this forum as gospel?

And as you asked, I will answer, "There is no way your feeble minds will grasp the complicated thing called P&P" by reading this forum.
I don't see any insulting. But I also don't see any explanations. We are all still patiently awaiting the answer to "you guys just don't understand"

I am challenging you right now, explain one thing that we do not understand. Because I have yet to see it. Tell everyone what it is that we are so ignorant of, tell us how we don't see what you see. Is this not what we are here for?

Explain.....educate....

or do you really have ANYTHING at all to share that has ANY semblance of wisdom into the really mind boggling state of property preservation. I mean, I am so stupid I cannot grasp business 101 topics.

So please...floor is yours....tell us everything we do not comprehend
 
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