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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,
We have not done HPIRs and other HUD work in the past. I'm sure it's something we could do, but providing pricing on something we haven't done before is difficult. I am aware of the issues of backfeeding, and that's not something we'd do. What is a fair price and/or estimate of time an HPIR takes? I am sure the $115 being offered is too low, but not sure what is appropriate. It notes that the HPIR inspection/minor securing needs done, but the other potential costly item is the safety hazards.
 

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Swift,

My best advice is to look over the HPIR. I think they are like 4 pages long if memory serves. Take the time to examine your own home and complete the form as if you had to do it on your home. Now look at the time involved, the labor required (either your own or your crews) and come up with a number. Than add on a PITA factor as well as an "Oh Chit, I forgot to include that" factor and go from there.

I'm curious who this is for. If you don't mind sharing, PM me the company name.

IMHO, anything less than $200 is too low, especially factoring in liability.
 

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HPIR inspections used to pay in the $125-$135 range, but they seemed to have been dropping in price. Lots of upfront liability regarding roofs, mold, mechanicals, etc. Usually wasn't a lot of debris, but quite of bit of time spent capping lines, outlet covers, handrails, and documentation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
HPIR inspections used to pay in the $125-$135 range, but they seemed to have been dropping in price. Lots of upfront liability regarding roofs, mold, mechanicals, etc. Usually wasn't a lot of debris, but quite of bit of time spent capping lines, outlet covers, handrails, and documentation.
I am unsure how it would be profitable at $125-$135 with the safety hazards though. Assuming <30 min drive time, is 3 per day feasible?
 

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I knew people doing $7 inspections that jumped all over them. We used to do them for a few nationals. They certainly are not 45 minute jobs. Yes, you can knock out three per day; you can cap some lines and outlets, doing a porch rail or two and walk away with $200. But you had better be on with your bids, your diagnosis, your documentation and your photos. The forms are like filling out tax addendums.I'd much rather make the same money to rekey a couple houses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I knew people doing $7 inspections that jumped all over them. We used to do them for a few nationals. They certainly are not 45 minute jobs. Yes, you can knock out three per day; you can cap some lines and outlets, doing a porch rail or two and walk away with $200. But you had better be on with your bids, your diagnosis, your documentation and your photos. The forms are like filling out tax addendums.I'd much rather make the same money to rekey a couple houses.
Yeah I think we may pass. The way this is written, I don't believe you can charge extra to cap/handrail/etc? If you could charge extra for these items, it may make a little more sense. I think though they are trying to say this is included in HPIR price?
 

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To cover all of those safety hazards and make a profit you are either going to have to have a fully stocked work truck or operate very close to a HD or Lowes.

In rural areas you are easily driving an hour one way to buy supplies.
 
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Last time I checked handrails from the nationals paid around $10 per linear ft...before discount. Caps and cover plates...ah, not so much.
 

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I believe the last pricing memo regarding handrails we got was from Safeguard, with a few other companies following right behind at the same rates. Sentinal wasn't one of them.
 

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Well Sentinal just took over a bunch of states on Jan. 1 and they dont even address the issue of handrails with us. There pay is so broke and system no one is doing them and wait till HUD goes and inspects they wont be naughty or nice.
 

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I believe the last pricing memo regarding handrails we got was from Safeguard, with a few other companies following right behind at the same rates. Sentinal wasn't one of them.
I bid my handrails to be code compliant at $10 LF and guard rails at $20 LF, unless its an REO with fancy ballustrades. They never get approved. Matter of fact, I used to get asked why I didn't bid to "slap up a 2x4". Sure that's all I need as a licensed contractor, who should know better, to get sued for knowingly violating building codes. I can picture little Johnny or Suzy falling while mommy and daddy are looking to get a great deal on their first home.

Now I'm being asked to do flat rate pricing to complete an HPIR and address the hazards. At least that's how Swift and I understand it. Forget that noise........
 

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SG pays $11 a foot for two rail 2x4.


The last one I did a couple years ago I got the lumber from the job site. My cost was pennies for screws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I bid my handrails to be code compliant at $10 LF and guard rails at $20 LF, unless its an REO with fancy ballustrades. They never get approved. Matter of fact, I used to get asked why I didn't bid to "slap up a 2x4". Sure that's all I need as a licensed contractor, who should know better, to get sued for knowingly violating building codes. I can picture little Johnny or Suzy falling while mommy and daddy are looking to get a great deal on their first home.

Now I'm being asked to do flat rate pricing to complete an HPIR and address the hazards. At least that's how Swift and I understand it. Forget that noise........

I verified with Sentinel. In their $115 HPIR, included are handrails, hazards, etc. No extra for those items. At $11/LF, even with 20% discount or $8.80/lf. One 12' handrail would pay almost the same as the whole HPIR. But we would be expected to eat this cost.

This is a situation in which I could be one of those contractors that says, "OK" and takes the jobs, cuts corners, skips hazards, and then when people ask why I cut corners, I can say that they don't pay enough and I can't afford to do a good job. I've seen a few references to this in other posts(ex., Safeguard doesn't pay enough for wints so I can't afford the anti-freeze so I'm "forced" to do a sub-par job).

OR, I can know there is no way to profitably do these the correct way and not agree to do them to begin with.

I'm going with the ladder.
 

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Last Safeguard/Fannie matrix lists $50 winterizations as well. Go thru a decent neighborhood in an area heavy in foreclosures, and look at all of the middle and upper class SFH with untreated rough sawn 2x4 posts and rails decorating the front porches. Lovely.
 

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I verified with Sentinel. In their $115 HPIR, included are handrails, hazards, etc. No extra for those items. At $11/LF, even with 20% discount or $8.80/lf. One 12' handrail would pay almost the same as the whole HPIR. But we would be expected to eat this cost.

This is a situation in which I could be one of those contractors that says, "OK" and takes the jobs, cuts corners, skips hazards, and then when people ask why I cut corners, I can say that they don't pay enough and I can't afford to do a good job. I've seen a few references to this in other posts(ex., Safeguard doesn't pay enough for wints so I can't afford the anti-freeze so I'm "forced" to do a sub-par job).

OR, I can know there is no way to profitably do these the correct way and not agree to do them to begin with.

I'm going with the ladder.
I'm in the same boat as you Swift. $115 is too low just to do a HPIR correctly. The liability is too high. Throw in the hazards as well and its "Thanks but no thanks for me" as I said in my PM, to many PPO's in my area that never got a bid approval for a hand rail or guardrail. Not to mention uncapped gas lines, missing switch plates covers, etc.

Then there is the biggest fib of all. "Don't worry, all that stuff was covered before the property conveyed"..... Just like all the debris and personals were removed
 

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Last Safeguard/Fannie matrix lists $50 winterizations as well. Go thru a decent neighborhood in an area heavy in foreclosures, and look at all of the middle and upper class SFH with untreated rough sawn 2x4 posts and rails decorating the front porches. Lovely.

$50?????????? just WOW, guess I aint missing any thing once again.
In my defense the 2x4 I was referencing was interior on a house that was so bad that after 16 man hours of P&P janitorial ......
it MIGHT, emphasis on MIGHT, have been clean enough for merry maids to start cleaning on it.
Even after that it wasn't habitable without a remodel.



Then there is the biggest fib of all. "Don't worry, all that stuff was covered before the property conveyed"..... Just like all the debris and personals were removed

Oh yeah, I've often wondered how such houses ever convey when they are full of convey issues.
 

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Need to clarify: the $50 is for a rewint. We used to get that for just a pressure test.I'm not knocking contractors for putting up studs for rails and handholds; my point is some of the ridiculous items that have been done to properties, regardless of how much it makes it look worse. Also regardless of how much the realtor protests that has to put the place on the market and show it.
 

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Need to clarify: the $50 is for a rewint. We used to get that for just a pressure test.I'm not knocking contractors for putting up studs for rails and handholds; my point is some of the ridiculous items that have been done to properties, regardless of how much it makes it look worse. Also regardless of how much the realtor protests that has to put the place on the market and show it.
I do knock "contractors" for putting up 2x4's. In Wisconsin, a 2x4 doesn't meet UDC for a handrail. All "contractors" know this. It burns me when regionals or nationals tell someone to "slap up a 2x4", especially after I tell them it is not code compliant.
 

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I do knock "contractors" for putting up 2x4's. In Wisconsin, a 2x4 doesn't meet UDC for a handrail. All "contractors" know this. It burns me when regionals or nationals tell someone to "slap up a 2x4", especially after I tell them it is not code compliant.



The condition of the house I was referring to was similar to rough construction where a two rail 2x4 railing is acceptable.


I never have put 2x4 up in a finished house where folks could legitimately be expected to move in and set up living quarters.
In those cases I always bought honest to god handrail and attached it to handrail hardware to studs.
 
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