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So I cover most of Colorado.

For Colorado, like most states, you have your central populations in places like Denver, Colorado Springs and Fort Collins. If you want a state wide contract, you cover the big populations and have to suck it on the outlying ones. None of this should surprise any of you.

We have 2 large clients we make our big money on and then a whole bunch of clients that we are low on the totem pole. We do their work regardless of where just to gain some traction with them.

When these companies send us a job, my sales pitch kicks in and I call them, tell them how thankful we are to have a job that loses us about $20-40 and takes up half a day for myself or a sub. I then tell them we would love to cover more jobs for them, by the way, please send us the work in the metro areas.

NFR is one of these clients. They keep sending us jobs like 'rekey the 2nd-ary door only' and photo all the rooms. And it's a 2 hour drive.

So I call them and tell them my spiel. He gets frustrated with me and says I say this to him every time he sends an order/I call. I explain that's the price if you want me to drive to Breckenridge from Denver. He says he already has established contractors in metro Denver and he needs contractors that cover all the outlying areas. I explain over and over again, we would be happy to continue to cover these areas if we got a piece of metro Denver. Same crap over and over again and he is frustrated. He keeps asking me why I list summit county as part of my coverage area if I'm going to bitch about it. I didn't think I was bitching, I was selling...

Finally, I ask him how many jobs we have got this year: 7. How many have been more than an hour away from Denver? 7. How many paid more than $100? 0.

By this time, I'm pulling off the hwy ramp, and tell him, I'm turning around, find another contractor that wants to do these. We're not going to do this job or any others until we have a mutually beneficial agreement. His last words were: "I'm de-listing your company now!" and he hung up.

I'm normally pretty good in these situations. I normally don't tell customers like this off because I've had some turn out good. In this case, I don't feel too bad at all.
 
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Here what I think:

A) When I establish jobs with my GCs there is minimum charge I will come out for and if you dont like it,best of luck hire someone else. So no bull**** 30 sq ft window patches unless we got it inked that I have next 10 jobs regardless of area.
B) I think you played it wrong you should have established A with that contractor before. Now after the fact you trying to get the piece of pie,which he is not willing to give up.
C)Personally I would tell him to bounce nicely,by saying that in this economy its hard to do jobs outside of Denver for less than minimum of X dollars.
D)He does not like it he can hire someone else,market is open. If you have more work dont sweat it,if you dont you sort of have to put up with this bs.
E)Overall I feel for you,GCs and big boys think they know whats the best,but you know what is involved in your business..Let the guy go,you will have better luck with someone else. But dont blame it on him if you did not establish beforehands whats minimum you come out for.
 
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I have heard NFR doing things like this up in the Minneapolis/St Paul area. Stuff like: Board all windows/doors on first floor in high vandalism and then complain about how only two carriage bolts were used per 2x4 OR complain about how 2x4's were used instead of 2x6's.

EDIT:
To The Italian: Property Preservation world is vastly different than normal "GC/Subcontractor world.
 
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72opp said:
To The Italian: Property Preservation world is vastly different than normal "GC/Subcontractor world.
Thanks for clarifying :).

However I think there is really fine line in overall business run strategy as far as subs and property preservation guys go..

So generally I think some of the concepts in my above post can be applied to this situation.

If its simply not worth it for you to come out,why do it?


Property preservation is known up here as property maintanance and includes most of services you provide+some general handyman work.
Its tough bread to make.I have some friends doing it.
Its even tougher if you let them ride you.
 

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We discovered long ago that sucking up crap jobs on the other side of the moon for a loss, all for the promise of "more to come" was a bunch of hooey. My first thought is, why aren't they using their "established contractors" for the loose end work? There is never any good reason to work for a loss, ever.
 
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Congratulations on getting on the naughty list:laughing: I have to admit that is a good line you gave them.:thumbsup:
 

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GTX63 said:
We discovered long ago that sucking up crap jobs on the other side of the moon for a loss, all for the promise of "more to come" was a bunch of hooey. My first thought is, why aren't they using their "established contractors" for the loose end work? There is never any good reason to work for a loss, ever.





Man aint that the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They tell you they need a favor, only problem is that they never favor you.
 

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I've worked with NFR for some time now, I have only had positive experiences with them. I know it must be hard for them to take work away from one contractor and give it to another.

I never list the counties that I'm willing to drive a bit further to in my coverage area. Then I always get the call from clients saying "What would it take to get you to drive 2 hours away for a lock change?" That's the point where you've got them and can charge what you want or turn down the order.
 

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JenkinsHB said:
I've worked with NFR for some time now, I have only had positive experiences with them. I know it must be hard for them to take work away from one contractor and give it to another.

I never list the counties that I'm willing to drive a bit further to in my coverage area. Then I always get the call from clients saying "What would it take to get you to drive 2 hours away for a lock change?" That's the point where you've got them and can charge what you want or turn down the order.
Same here. Only positive experiences with them To take work away from someone who is already a steady performer for not fault of their own is not cool on their part as well.
 
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BS..NFR has crap properties and they can't get anything approved to be done with the crap property. A lot of reverse mortgages that look like crack shacks. Inspectors come in and note the same things that we note...then they ask for another estimate...then nothing.
 
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thanohano44 said:
Same here. Only positive experiences with them To take work away from someone who is already a steady performer for not fault of their own is not cool on their part as well.
My point is that I dont want to do the low performing jobs unless I get the high performing jobs.

Why take work away from a steady performer? Free market principles. Cool doesnt have anything to do with it.

They really have 3 options:
1) They can ask current vendors to expand
2) Hire someone like me that will only cover low performers in exchange for local
3) or find someone willing to do the low performers, which is proving difficult.
 
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Hi everyone. Been in business 9 years but new here. We cover 5 states and NFR was one we worked with for a few months along the string of wasted time onto doing what we love now, direct contracts ONLY.

Pardon the following string of rhetoricals:

For those who are doing so well with NFR, please ask the president Shari Nott when we'll get paid for the work completed in June when we quit working for them after their invoices got out to 90 days.

Please ask her why her office folks give approval to consolidate debris from a grass cut when there is 20cyd of debris in the yard and why we had blanket approval for that, yet every invoice for consolidating got cut.

Please let me know why we were given approval "as long as it was still on allowable at the top of the form listed at $2500" to proceed with cutting 3 acre yards that are 3ft deep for initials, charging a fair price, then being told HUD pricing doesn't allow extra for tall grass so they can't pay for that triple cut even though their office rep approved it in advance.

Then when we had blanket approval, please let me know why we received dozens of reduced invoices 2 months later with the statement "should have called from site for approval" even though we have 3 emails giving full blanket approval with no need to call.

Yeah, just another ripoff like most any other national. Their pay rate was fair, but it doesn't matter if I offer out $300/cyd if I never actually pay it to someone. Waste of time like the rest!

Worked for 40 different companies before deciding to only take direct contracts. Every single one was a waste of time in the end. Some lasted a week (Safeguard) some lasted 3 years before being crap (Cyprexx) and in the end they all end up the same way.
 
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mass. contractor

i work for 3 other co. have for 3 years.I got ripped off many times in the begining.
but i found my way with some good companiies.
The company i was working for lost american homes contract,which was almost all of my recurring work.NFR got the american homes contract so i thought i would give them a try.its been 45 days still no pay.the whole process they put you through is very unorganized.one dept does not talk to the other.
after sending in pics there is no confirmation.then you are asked to send invoice again /then send pics again/and againand again.
changing out amer lock boxes for new ones is not rocket science.it pays $35 i can live with it with the hope of getting paid and getting the rest of the work.
the lock box is $10/the gas is $5=$15
$35 -$20=$15 is what we can make .then they want a PCR(more paper work and more pics )but not more money.
then if the property needs work plumbing/roofing ,etc. they want bids as part of original order all this for $15 and wait for it for over 45 days and counting .
when i complained politley i was suspended untill further notice.Like i would actualy take any more orders untill i get paid.
 

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None of this sounds like the NFR that I work for. Are you sure we are talking about the same company? I get steady orders, bid approvals, and pay.
 
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JenkinsHB said:
None of this sounds like the NFR that I work for. Are you sure we are talking about the same company? I get steady orders, bid approvals, and pay.
They are appoving everything up here.They actually approved today a pool board up a 3.05s/ft.I was shocked on the spot approval.

Thank you fremont for pricing
 

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For those who are doing so well with NFR, please ask the president Shari Nott when we'll get paid for the work completed in June when we quit working for them after their invoices got out to 90 days.

Based on who you have listed as president, I think you are confusing NFR (National Field Representatives) with NFN (National Field Network.) both pay pretty well, but pretty slow. You have to have running capital or it's tough to stay ahead of your costs.

Assuming you aren't too rural, you can make money with these companies as long as you're able to keep your cool and take some licks now and again, it also pays to have someone purely processing the work to avoid 15 hour days. Also, My experience with NFN is that there is no such thing as blanket approvals. Whoever told you that must have been green.
 

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you can make money with these companies as long as you're able to keep your cool and take some licks now and again,
HA! I used to get the euphemisms - "take one for the team" or "sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you", spouted at me whenever "they" needed a favor or wanted me to take a reduced bid. I finally told them - when you say that, it implies that at some point you are going to send me a very profitable job that I can make some decent money on. If this is the case, then I can play for the team. If it's not the case, I'd rather you not treat me like an idiot and give this no profit work to someone else.
Sometimes its hard to walk away from a job. But, at the end of the day, I'm in business to make money. Not just complete work.

I turned down a job recently to remove 72 cyds of debris. Because there was 125 cyds scattered over a 10 acre site. They "didn't see it". I told them to let somebody else go "see it".
 
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hi

2 hours for a rekey and photos that im sure you dont get paid for,theres no way i have cut to my county and a couple each direction,anything past that im definetly not making money,people have to learn to say no and quit falling for you have to cover so many counties or 60 mile radius for work,tell em NOOO
 

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2 hours for a rekey and photos that im sure you dont get paid for,theres no way i have cut to my county and a couple each direction,anything past that im definetly not making money,people have to learn to say no and quit falling for you have to cover so many counties or 60 mile radius for work,tell em NOOO
If we covered a 60 mile radius we would do 12 properties a year. This isn't construction we HAVE to drive or we can't make a living. I drove 300 miles yesterday and boarded 2 windows and a first time final. I probably covered my fuel on the boarding job and made money on the final. It's tough out there especially this time of year.
 
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