Middleman paying field workers NOTHING!!! Doing Crappy work

17337 Views 71 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Craigslist Hack, Nov 29, 2011

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Discussion Starter · Nov 24, 2011

We have been contacted by a number of companies trying to sub work to us at ridiculous prices. I don't mind working for other companies but I am not doing a wint for $20.00 or cutting the lawn for $15.00.

I don't understand why a national would give work in Illinois to a guy in Atlanta, or Florida? All they do is run adds on Craigslist and hire some Jackleg that can't even board a window properly.

Does any one have any insight into how to make the Nationals aware of what these middlemen are doing so honest companies can at least work for the national?

1 - 20 of 72 Posts

mtmtnman

· #2 · Nov 24, 2011

Doberman Prop said:
We have been contacted by a number of companies trying to sub work to us at ridiculous prices. I don't mind working for other companies but I am not doing a wint for $20.00 or cutting the lawn for $15.00.

I don't understand why a national would give work in Illinois to a guy in Atlanta, or Florida? All they do is run adds on Craigslist and hire some Jackleg that can't even board a window properly.

Does any one have any insight into how to make the Nationals aware of what these middlemen are doing so honest companies can at least work for the national?

Three words for you. THEY DON'T CARE! There are WAY to many broke people that will work for nothing and SOME, not ALL of the regionals have figured this out. They pocket more $$$ than the contractor. I have a friend in the Tampa area who owns a lawncare business. He routinely gets calls wanting him to do REPO lawncuts for $10 to $15. The Nationals bill at least $80 so if they take 25% there is $60 left on the table so the regional is pocketing $45 and giving the contractor $15 but as long as there is people that are willing (broke) to do these cuts for $15 it will not change.

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Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 24, 2011

I guess they need gardeners down in Georgia and Bama. :thumbup:

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 24, 2011

It still amazes me, the whole p and p thing is ridiculous.

mtmtnman

· #5 · Nov 24, 2011

ohiohomedoctor said:
It still amazes me, the whole p and p thing is ridiculous.

It's construction wide nowdays. Contractors here are bidding jobs just to cover their notes. No margin at all. Why bother if you can't turn a profit? All your doing is wearing out your equipment and prolonging the pain. Liquidate and cut your losses........

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Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 24, 2011

ohiohomedoctor said:
It still amazes me, the whole p and p thing is ridiculous.

I agree. I don't understand it.

The P&P thread is nothing more than some 2000+ posts all complaining and others agreeing about the whole industry.

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 24, 2011

BamBamm5144 said:
I agree. I don't understand it.

The P&P thread is nothing more than some 2000+ posts all complaining and others agreeing about the whole industry.

:crying: :sad:

mtmtnman

· #8 · Nov 24, 2011

BamBam, Ohiodoc, Consider yourself lucky if you have work. As i posted above, the whole construction industry has went to hell. I was a foreman for a small excavating company in 2008 when everything started to fall apart. P&P was my only option as there was absolutely no work unless i wanted to go to the oilfields in Alaska or Eastern Montana. I had enough time away from my family the year i worked in Mississippi and Louisiana after Katrina and i WON'T do that ever again. i missed a year of my kids growing up and i'll NEVER get that back.

I have done alright in this business and have fed my family for the last 3.5 years and have even been able to buy a bunch of equipment from broke people at rock bottom prices. The problem for me isn't that i am not making money because i am, The problem is i see how much is left on the table and the disgusting greed of the nationals in this business. By far my best margins are with local brokers and banks but i have a few subs that work for me and i feel responsible to keep them afloat, thus i take on work from the greedy nationals.

If i was a jackass i could just tell my subs "tough luck" and just work for the locals on my own but having dependable subs is great when i get a very large local job which i need extra help on. I would suspect my case is similar to MANY of the regulars who frequent the P&P forum. We also try and educate the newbies so they don't take it in the shorts because if they agree to work cheap, it lowers the price for the rest of us who are depending on this business until the economy turns around which is going to be a LONG way down the road IMHO!!!

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Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 24, 2011

mtmtnman said:
BamBam, Ohiodoc, Consider yourself lucky if you have work. As i posted above, the whole construction industry has went to hell. I was a foreman for a small excavating company in 2008 when everything started to fall apart. P&P was my only option as there was absolutely no work unless i wanted to go to the oilfields in Alaska or Eastern Montana. I had enough time away from my family the year i worked in Mississippi and Louisiana after Katrina and i WON'T do that ever again. i missed a year of my kids growing up and i'll NEVER get that back.

I have done alright in this business and have fed my family for the last 3.5 years and have even been able to buy a bunch of equipment from broke people at rock bottom prices. The problem for me isn't that i am not making money because i am, The problem is i see how much is left on the table and the disgusting greed of the nationals in this business. By far my best margins are with local brokers and banks but i have a few subs that work for me and i feel responsible to keep them afloat, thus i take on work from the greedy nationals.

If i was a jackass i could just tell my subs "tough luck" and just work for the locals on my own but having dependable subs is great when i get a very large local job which i need extra help on. I would suspect my case is similar to MANY of the regulars who frequent the P&P forum. We also try and educate the newbies so they don't take it in the shorts because if they agree to work cheap, it lowers the price for the rest of us who are depending on this business until the economy turns around which is going to be a LONG way down the road IMHO!!!

I don't know how much I believe that the whole construction industry went to hell. When I look around my area, I see a lot of legitimate companies still working, some are said to be having record years. My supplier told me they are having a pretty good year.

We all deal with the same price issues you do, I just think the difference is that the PP business has a low level of entry capital needed (no offense).

For example with pricing, I bid on two of the exact same roofs. Same price for both, one signed and one read me the riot act.

Oh yeah, YOU AREN'T responsible for your subs. That might make it easier for you.

G

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 24, 2011

I remember when things started going flat back in '89. It stayed that way for about 10 years.
9.11.01 happened and Americans everywhere started helping each other again. All was good, new construction and remodels were strong.
Then greedy corporate ceos and bankers raided the public funds and retirement accounts until 2008 when the money was all gone.
Geo W. tucked tail to hide out with his neuvo riche buddies. Leaving John Q. and his family to fend for themselves.
BO came to the rescue of his campaign supporters and emptied the federal coffers in the form of banker bailouts.
Not surprising that some people are looking for ways to extort the overflowing labor pool.

thanohano44

· #11 · Nov 24, 2011

skyhook said:
I remember when things started going flat back in '89. It stayed that way for about 10 years.
9.11.01 happened and Americans everywhere started helping each other again. All was good, new construction and remodels were strong.
Then greedy corporate ceos and bankers raided the public funds and retirement accounts until 2008 when the money was all gone.
Geo W. tucked tail to hide out with his neuvo riche buddies. Leaving John Q. and his family to fend for themselves.
BO came to the rescue of his campaign supporters and emptied the federal coffers in the form of banker bailouts.
Not surprising that some people are looking for ways to extort the overflowing labor pool.

Lol

G

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 24, 2011

:whistlingI loose money on every job. But I make up for it in volume. :whistling:whistling

G

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 24, 2011

I've said it before in PP threads just like this one. If you don't like what "they" pay, then it's as simple as choosing to not work for them.

Complaining accomplishes nothing.

G

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 24, 2011

mtmtnman said:
Three words for you. THEY DON'T CARE! There are WAY to many broke people that will work for nothing and SOME, not ALL of the regionals have figured this out. They pocket more $$$ than the contractor. I have a friend in the Tampa area who owns a lawncare business. He routinely gets calls wanting him to do REPO lawncuts for $10 to $15. The Nationals bill at least $80 so if they take 25% there is $60 left on the table so the regional is pocketing $45 and giving the contractor $15 but as long as there is people that are willing (broke) to do these cuts for $15 it will not change.

These people taking the $15-30 lawn cuts for the nationals that require all the pictures, hassles of getting paid, callbacks, etc. need to realize that there is a huge number of people who would love to pay $30-40-50+ to have their yard cut. No pictures required, no working net/30 or even worse, and no 100 mile round trip to get $30.

Unfortunately this will last for the foreseeable future, until people can find gainful employment that provides them with the health insurance/WC/retirement packages that $15-30 cuts will never provide.

G

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 24, 2011

BamBamm5144 said:
I agree. I don't understand it.

The P&P thread is nothing more than some 2000+ posts all complaining and others agreeing about the whole industry.

The people crying and complaining are the ones working for the national and regional companies and working for peanuts. If you can't turn a profit then do something else!

Every time I post that I work only for brokers, banks, and asset managers directly I get the same people who chime in and say "Oh, were in a smaller market and the banks ONLY use nationals" Well, that's a load of BULL!! I know of at LEAST 3 major banks who ONLY use brokers for their REO and PP work.

Even ones like BAC who use their own contractors give me TONS of work! Im talking at least 5-6 jobs per week because their contractor either can't handle it or the bid is too high because everyone is tacking on profit to the original bid.

Bottom line is brokers will give you the most work and most profit, you just need to find the banks that only rely on the brokers and contact them.

There are some banks like Fannie Mae that use nationals but still make the broker do the rekey. I average 4-5 rekeys a week for fannie mae assets.

The work is out there, you just have to go find it. If it was easy to find a company or the company advertised somewhere then I can guarantee you won't be making any money!!! If it was that easy, well you know the rest.. (think Safeguard, FAS, AMS..etc..)

And im not saying the nationals are bad, in fact if you are new I encourage you to sign up and work for as many nationals as you can. I'm just saying don't make a career out of it. I started out working for Safeguard and worked for them and Cyprexx for 2 years. I gained all the experience I needed and I got to know every REO broker in my area, and they got to know me. That's called building relationships!

If people are telling you that they are not making money in PP it's either because they are working for regionals or they are lying!

I was in construction for years and I make more money doing PP then I ever did in construction! But then again I get $275 for wints, not $40
I bid every trashout at $50 per cy, I get $75 to cut lawns in row homes in Philly which average about 15' x 30' plus all the repair work and no one EVER takes a cut from my invoices!

So, you will NEVER hear me crying or complaining!!

Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

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mtmtnman

· #16 · Nov 24, 2011

BamBamm5144 said:
I don't know how much I believe that the whole construction industry went to hell. When I look around my area, I see a lot of legitimate companies still working, some are said to be having record years. My supplier told me they are having a pretty good year.

We all deal with the same price issues you do, I just think the difference is that the PP business has a low level of entry capital needed (no offense).

For example with pricing, I bid on two of the exact same roofs. Same price for both, one signed and one read me the riot act.

Oh yeah, YOU AREN'T responsible for your subs. That might make it easier for you.

Things must be a whole lot different behind the Cheddar Curtain. I left Hayward in Feb 2005 due to lack of decent work. I'll tell you how bad it is here. There where 50 openings for a construction project up here this past spring. There where over 700 applicants in a weeks time. The county only has 90,000 residents so do the math.

mtmtnman

· #17 · Nov 24, 2011

BigDaddyPin said:
Even ones like BAC who use their own contractors give me TONS of work! Im talking at least 5-6 jobs per week because their contractor either can't handle it or the bid is too high because everyone is tacking on profit to the original bid.

You been getting any BAC direct since the changeover 11/1????? It was like shutting off a lightswitch here. The brokers have properties that are weeks late and FAS who has the gig here can't get anyone to work for them so the properties just sit. The brokers are all hounding their asset managers but are told nothing can be done and they CANNOT hire local contractors period. When i was doing BAC direct for the brokers it was an average of 2-3 days from when they called me till they where ready to market and YES the money was VERY good....................

Craigslist Hack

· #18 · Nov 24, 2011

We don't work for these middle men but we do follow them. The crap they pull is unbelievable.

Gypsos

· #19 · Nov 25, 2011

I was a drywall contrator for over 10 years and now do PP work almost exclusively. I got tired of having all the proper insurance and other paperwork and then getting my throat cut by the companies who use crews of illegals that they pay $60 per day cash to work a 14 hour day.

And it is not just the small fly by night companies that do this. It wasn't too long ago that a very large GC in the area got caught hiding their crew of illegals in a conex box on the job site.

So now I do PP work either by myself or with temp help for larger projects. I will not get rich, but my bills are being paid and my kids are being fed and right now that is a lot more than a lot of people can claim.

G

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 25, 2011

Gypsos said:
I was a drywall contrator for over 10 years and now do PP work almost exclusively. I got tired of having all the proper insurance and other paperwork and then getting my throat cut by the companies who use crews of illegals that they pay $60 per day cash to work a 14 hour day.

And it is not just the small fly by night companies that do this. It wasn't too long ago that a very large GC in the area got caught hiding their crew of illegals in a conex box on the job site.

So now I do PP work either by myself or with temp help for larger projects. I will not get rich, but my bills are being paid and my kids are being fed and right now that is a lot more than a lot of people can claim.

Got tired of doing work the right way? So you chose PP? Please..... market your services to people who can afford them and stop waiting weeeeeeekkks for your $30.

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