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Since I sold out and retired in 2010 I have been getting emails and phone calls about so many changes in the industry. I am sure with those changes come many problems also. I have been speaking with some of the very top m & m's and they also say there are problems.
I am trying to find out what the most common problems seem to be in P & P work or Reo maintenance today.
I read posts of no pay, bad companies, no bids accepted, etc. what else seems to be plaguing this industry today? I would love the opportunity to address some of these new problems specifically with the M & Ms. Maybe that is a good place to start so we can possibly implement some positive changes.
Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Multible emails asking same bs questions everyday when you have gave your answer 5 xs already....These start up companys who have no idea whats goin on and screw it all up(dont buy right locks,bid 100 for a 500 job etc) no insurance lisc etc.
 
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How do the startups get work orders without the proper insurance? And not using correct locks should give them a no pay on an initial secure. Meaning the next guy who does it right gets the full pay.
You know the hounding of vendor managers is a legitimate pain in the arse and I agree that needs to be addressed. There is absolutely NO reason for them to do that.
 

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Problems

I think that one of the biggest problems is with the underbidding. There are so called nationals popping up everyday and when they contact us to do work, the pricing is unbelievable.
For whatever reason, the industry as I see it is going to continue to go down hill just because any honest company playing by the rules with insurance and taxes can't work for some of these undercut fees. That means all the companies will get are the contractors that cheat and take shortcuts. In the end the clients will pay more for the damages to their properties than they would have if done right the first time.
 

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I come from a commercial construction background. I started at the bottom and worked my way up to run entire companies. My experience and observations on this website show me that the problems plaguing P&P are similar to what plagues construction.

1. Not getting paid in a timely manner - It is a simple fact of life that the lowest tier subcontractors finance the project. Most General Contractors make you sign contracts that provide that you only get paid if they get paid, not necessarily when they get paid. How many times have we heard, “We are just a little behind right now, your check will be sent soon.” But if we get a little behind we get penalized.

2. The price you get paid is not the same as the price that was agreed upon - When they do get paid they want to discuss your invoice and the amount you are going to get, after they have already approved it. How about this one, “The invoiced amount was changed to cover only 30 CY because I just could not see 40 CY yards of debris in the pictures.”

3. There is always some new guy who has no clue about what the cost of doing business is willing to do it cheaper - The current rate for illegal immigrate workers in drywall in Central Florida is $60 per day cash for a 14 hour work day. How do I compete with this when I pay WC & CGL insurance, State and Federal unemployment insurance, employer Social Security contribution and a fair wage to my employees. The same goes for the guy who thinks $15 to cut grass is good money. There is no way he has the proper insurance.

4. Insane project schedules that have absolutely no foundation in reality – the house has been empty and abandoned with no maintenance of any kind done for 3 years and I only have 3 days to to cut down and haul off the forest of shrubs, grass and trees, haul off the 20 CY of debris left in the yard and the 25 CY of debris left in the house and then scrub and polish it up like a shiny new penny. Really... who came up with this? I want to meet this numb skull.

5. Communications, or lack thereof – Your contact is never reachable by phone and takes at least three days to return calls or emails. Then they want to know why you did not accomplish the job correctly or ask for guidance. When I was the Operations Manager at one of the companies I ran, it was policy that you could, and would, be fired for not answering your phone or returning calls quickly. We had no communication problems. People found ways to answer phones and return calls.

6. Respect, or a lack thereof – Nobody likes to be talked down to. I have worked for coordinators that did exactly that. I recall asking for a couple of more days to complete a trash out because we found some issues when we got into it and was told that I would not get more time. If it was not done in the 3 days allotted a second vendor would be sent out to supplement my crew and I would be charged for it, so unless I wanted this to happen I needed to buy another truck and dump trailer and hire more people that day.

7. Knowledge of what the job entails – Teach the people that we have to deal with what the job on our end entails. This is no cushy office job with A/C and a break room. When is rains we get wet. When it is cold out we freeze. When it is hot out we sweat. We go into abandoned buildings that have any number of unknown safety and health hazards. We clean up garbage, rotting food, feces, mold and any other manner of filth that is left behind for nothing near what the effort and risk is worth and we do a damn fine job of it too.

This is what I have experienced. For the last 16 years I have had the scratch and claw and fight for every penny I have made and I have decided I am not going to do that anymore. I enjoy what I do, but I now limit myself to grass cuts and maids. The rest is simply not worth it to me.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
I hate showing up at a property and none of my keys fit the lock,was secured 4 to 6 months ago and they went got dollar store lock..have call from site, get trip charge 2 weeks later get the w/o for resecure and go fix some jackass's work....wast my time n money..They dont get a charge back cause they are long gone
 
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Discussion Starter #7
These are all great! Please keep them coming I am taking notes and I am hoping to form a panel of M & M'[s, HUD, and some bank representatives, to present these issues and hopefully address them one by one.
I have two owners of M & Ms on board so far and possibly a HUD Director. so far.
 

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Beverly S said:
I am taking notes and I am hoping to form a panel of M & M'[s, HUD, and some bank representatives, to present these issues and hopefully address them one by one.
I have two owners of M & Ms on board so far and possibly a HUD Director. so far.

Beverly, with all due respect, you are talking about forming a panel that would be seated by the creators of this mess. This is a nationwide problem that is not created by the worker bees in the offices (although it is taught). This is a culture that was started from the top down and it is spelled g r e e d.
The current administration, Banks, HUD, Fannie, Freddie, Safeguard, FAS, etc.

Underbid to get a large contract. Pay less than going rate to complete work. Implement a business model that shorts or chargesback invoices to recoup capitol. Using inexperienced labor to complete work when the qualified contractors cannot continue.
Boiler room deals with cronie insurance companies that cripple the business owner and enable the big boys to escape corporate liability. Creating unreasonable and suffocating requirements and time frames for completing and submitting work orders.

The National Bank Leaders are not interested in creating a plan that benefits anyone but themselves. That is why so many companies participating in this forum are leaving or going only with the locals for work on these properties.

Believing that these are only issues would be a mistake. Again, it is a culture.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Beverly there is enough "complaints" already to write your book :)
 

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Beverly S said:
These are all great! Please keep them coming I am taking notes and I am hoping to form a panel of M & M'[s, HUD, and some bank representatives, to present these issues and hopefully address them one by one.
I have two owners of M & Ms on board so far and possibly a HUD Director. so far.




Beverly I think your heart is in the right place.

How ever like GTX posted, I don't think its going to change.
 

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Gypsos said:
4. Insane project schedules that have absolutely no foundation in reality – the house has been empty and abandoned with no maintenance of any kind done for 3 years and I only have 3 days to to cut down and haul off the forest of shrubs, grass and trees, haul off the 20 CY of debris left in the yard and the 25 CY of debris left in the house and then scrub and polish it up like a shiny new penny. Really... who came up with this? I want to meet this numb skull.
That is one thing i really cannot understand. WTF is the major rush???????:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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Discussion Starter #12
When I spoke with Paul and suzanne they were the ones who suggested we include HUD because they have the power to enforce thew regulations, but must also have these infractions presented to them. So hopefully we will be able to at least get a starting point going.
I am not talking about FAS or safeguard. They are not M & Ms they are jokes to this industry. You are right they are causing the problems. So let's get the contractors going with the REAL m& Ms and bypass those companies who prey on the uninformed.
The biggest problem I see is that contractors are not being carefuil who they work for.
Once again, the difference between an m& M and a management company is this: An M & M has a direct contract with the bank to not only manage and maintain the banks properties but to also MARKET the properties as well, so any work a contractor does for them, will have only that M & M's name on all paperwork. The management companies are merely contractor started companies who manage third and fourth hand work orders for maintenance. They have absolutely NO power to list or approve a sale of any property.
Why would you even want to work for a company who is only going to pay you 20 or 30 percent of any work order???
please do NOT confuse the word "Nationals" with M & Ms. Again a national is any company who chooses to contract with sub contractors in several states. they can be a second, third, fourth or even fifth tier company. guys please learn all the terminology and it will become a bit clearer why you are having problems. Go to work for the actual M & Ms.
 

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Beverly S said:
When I spoke with Paul and suzanne they were the ones who suggested we include HUD because they have the power to enforce thew regulations, but must also have these infractions presented to them. So hopefully we will be able to at least get a starting point going.
I am not talking about FAS or safeguard. They are not M & Ms they are jokes to this industry. You are right they are causing the problems. So let's get the contractors going with the REAL m& Ms and bypass those companies who prey on the uninformed.
The biggest problem I see is that contractors are not being carefuil who they work for.
Once again, the difference between an m& M and a management company is this: An M & M has a direct contract with the bank to not only manage and maintain the banks properties but to also MARKET the properties as well, so any work a contractor does for them, will have only that M & M's name on all paperwork. The management companies are merely contractor started companies who manage third and fourth hand work orders for maintenance. They have absolutely NO power to list or approve a sale of any property.
Why would you even want to work for a company who is only going to pay you 20 or 30 percent of any work order???
please do NOT confuse the word "Nationals" with M & Ms. Again a national is any company who chooses to contract with sub contractors in several states. they can be a second, third, fourth or even fifth tier company. guys please learn all the terminology and it will become a bit clearer why you are having problems. Go to work for the actual M & Ms.
Until yesterday I had no clue such existed. Who exactly are the M&Ms? I do not see any of them looking for vendors. I can only work for the companies I know exist.

How do I know a company I am talking to is or is not an M&M?

Based on my experience, the higher you go up the food chain you go the less likely anyone is to give you the time of day, much less talk to you about doing work for them.
 

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talk about schedules

I just love when a company calls with a "rush order".
I get a call Friday at 2 pm for a rush order for winterization and secure that needs to be done ASAP.
Well I need to get my plumbing guy and we have other jobs but I can do it by Sunday afternoon.
There reply was sorry that is to long I will get someone else.
Friday at 2 PM and Sunday is to long. Give me a break how long did you sit on the order?
 
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The M & Ms are the actual companies who have the work orders from the bank directly. They ONLY take 20% discount ... " always".
They are always looking for vendors who are " legitimate, insured, capable vendors. They do NOT advertise on craigslist or the like. They expect the knowledgeable contractors to come to them. That simple.
You don't know ? ask.
America's Info mart, A2Z, First Preston, Bac, cyprexx,Pacific preservation, REO Allegiance, Shall I go on???
There are only about ten of the first tier M & Ms. This is why I say get together with other contractors in your state and cover larger areas.
They do NOT want to babysit individual contractors who will only do work orders in a 30 mile radius or only certain work.
Listen hard... You absolutely MUST be able to do all the work on a property start to finish, no bull, no ifs and or butts.
This is what they want. This is how it has always been.
This is exactly why your second and third and fourth tier contractor companies get these work orders. because they have enough of you hungry subs that they can split it all up and divide it out and you have all the expenses and they make the money. Step back and take a look at the BIG picture. You contractors are running around chasing your own tails and can't see the entire forest because the trees are in the way. Stop!!! Take a look and sign on to make those work orders yourselves. If five contractors over a state can handle all the work in that state, you cut out three to ten lower rung companies.
Now, why do the M & Ms want direct contractors? Because them they KNOW who to call if there is a problem and they KNOW who will get that job done. Those rush orders are NOT from the bank, they are from a lower rung company who, by the time that order got to them it is almost due!! Not so with direct Bank M & Ms. Usually you get two to three days every order. Now is anyone grasping this big picture????
Go to each one's website and apply to be their Vendor. Simple enough? Stay away from Lamco and NVMS unless you are looking for auctions and inspections.
 
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Pac Pres is a M&M? AIM is M&M? WTH?

I KNOW for a fact that AIM will screw you and screw you hard both in volume, territory size, and slashed invoices.

I know this for a fact.

A2Z has poor pricing.

BAC is difficult to get with no matter what insurance you have.

Cyprexx...well, just search the forum for cyprexx and you will find all that you need to know about them.

REO Alliance doesn't have great prices either.

I have a very, very difficult time trying believe half of what Bev puts out so don't just trust her (I mean, the person is supposedly writing a book but I can barely read her posts...) or what I say.

Look and see what has been written here and else where about any company. There is a search bar for a reason....

According to my research from the HUD website; only AMS and First Preston have contracts in my state (MN) with HUD. Wells Fargo in my area uses AIM and are not happy with them.
 
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The HUD contracts are separate from the Marketing and Managing contracts of conventional loan properties.
And it is REO allegiance not REO alliance.
Hey if you don't want to believe me don't. I made money in this industry are you???
If you are having problems with some of the M & Ms them pehaps you need to be asking yourself why???
Absolutely NO company pays for poor work or incomplete work or bad attitudes or excuses. O.k.?
I am giving FREE information, exactly what are you doing to help all these contractors????
i will spend time and walk any contractor through a work order absolutely FREE, will you???
What is your reason for NOT wanting anyone to know information that could help them?
 
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Every single one of the M & Ms are very very picky and you had better know what you are doing to work for them. There is no room for shoddy work or guess work with any of them. They expect the contractors to be professional, period!

You know when someone tells me they have a problem with a particular M & M I look at why.
If you have contractors who have never even been properly trained doing work for low rung companies and then they sign on with actual m&Ms they are not able to meet the standards. It makes sense, so brush up on your skills and for heaven's sake, ask why??? If some one cuts you back ask them why?? Ask what you can do to correct any deficiency they may feel you have. Be a little humble it will get you everywhere.
Like I said these M & Ms are not going to baby sit, either you are a professional or you are not!.
 

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Beverly S said:
The M & Ms are the actual companies who have the work orders from the bank directly. They ONLY take 20% discount ... " always".
They are always looking for vendors who are " legitimate, insured, capable vendors. They do NOT advertise on craigslist or the like. They expect the knowledgeable contractors to come to them. That simple.
You don't know ? ask.
America's Info mart, A2Z, First Preston, Bac, cyprexx,Pacific preservation, REO Allegiance, Shall I go on???
There are only about ten of the first tier M & Ms. This is why I say get together with other contractors in your state and cover larger areas.
They do NOT want to babysit individual contractors who will only do work orders in a 30 mile radius or only certain work.
Listen hard... You absolutely MUST be able to do all the work on a property start to finish, no bull, no ifs and or butts.
This is what they want. This is how it has always been.
This is exactly why your second and third and fourth tier contractor companies get these work orders. because they have enough of you hungry subs that they can split it all up and divide it out and you have all the expenses and they make the money. Step back and take a look at the BIG picture. You contractors are running around chasing your own tails and can't see the entire forest because the trees are in the way. Stop!!! Take a look and sign on to make those work orders yourselves. If five contractors over a state can handle all the work in that state, you cut out three to ten lower rung companies.
Now, why do the M & Ms want direct contractors? Because them they KNOW who to call if there is a problem and they KNOW who will get that job done. Those rush orders are NOT from the bank, they are from a lower rung company who, by the time that order got to them it is almost due!! Not so with direct Bank M & Ms. Usually you get two to three days every order. Now is anyone grasping this big picture????
Go to each one's website and apply to be their Vendor. Simple enough? Stay away from Lamco and NVMS unless you are looking for auctions and inspections.
I have tried being the go to guy for everything and all it got me was a lot of time wasted bidding work.

I was an estimator for over six years. All I did all day long was bid work. I know how to price and bid a job competitviely. All these companies you speak of are no different than the General Contractors I worked for.

As far as banks are concerned... Quality smality, how low can you go? Banks only look at the bottom line, period. I see the "quality" they damand from the vendors doing the repairs in the properties I take care of. It is a joke at best. To get a contractor that can do it all costs money. You get what you pay for. The banks have all the money and they did not get that way by sticking to high standards of quality. They got that way by paying the lowest bottom dollar they can for what they want done.

Now I mostly cut grass and do maids and I make sure to do the best job I possibly can. So far this has paid off with accolades and lots of work.

I have tried to contact the other contrators in my area with no success. I have even offered to train the new vendors for my customers. Everyone thinks I am crazy and that I am up to something. It is easy to say we should all work together, but I do not see it ever happening. Eveyone is just too suspicious and paranoid. And based upon the way we get treated by our customers it is not an unhealthy suspicion or paranoia.
 

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I'm only going to use two examples.


A2Z and Pac Pres.
They ONLY take 20% discount ... " always".
Beverly like I mentioned before your heart is probably in the right place, pro the contractor, but so many many things have changed since you retired. You might want to start signing up with these clown companies before you give them such blanket praise.

I've worked for many of these companies out there that get mentioned. I know their practices.

First off A2Z. I've worked for both them and NVMS. For the exact same job NVMS will pay $125 that A2Z only pays $75 for. "They ONLY take 20% discount ... " always"."
Ummmm yeah, not really.


Pac Pres.....

They screwed up once and sent me some paper work that wasn't for my eyes. They bid a job at $1900 and paid me $900. "They ONLY take 20% discount ... " always"."
Ummmmm yeah, not really the case here either.


I could go on.

These guys that may have at one point in time been a good or great company to work for have all been bitten by the greed bug. Along with all the other greedy SOBs that have forced the pricing lower and lower that gets paid to the contractor.
Scum liar companies like Homeland etc.
 
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