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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if anyone else has issue with SG cutting invoices for debris removal or it's just us
 

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NEWREO said:
I was wondering if anyone else has issue with SG cutting invoices for debris removal or it's just us
Nope. SG always pays me on time and always the correct amount. They never do invoice adjustments. Solid company with a bunch of cool headed well rounded individuals.
On a serious note spend 5 minutes and read through the forum. It's funny how people are quick to post a question because they are to lazy to do research.
 
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I actually read and post here occasionally. I am posting under different name not to be recognizable. I wasn't saying that they are not paying or paying incorrectly. I specifically asked if someone sees adjustments on debris removals after the FACT after invoicing. We didn't see it before. Fewer with dumpsters, more with trailers. In the forum many mention that there are issues, wanted to know if there is a trend and if it's getting worse. Since there are not many CVs we see recently, I can't comment on those, when last year debris removals bids on those were cut a lot, but since we don't remove debris from them, we didn't care. Now with FHA that becomes concerning as this wasn't happening before.
I had two trailers loaded and I was told that there are 5 QY total. That is insane, not to mention that they wanted to cut 60 QY to 20 with the two dumpsters on site. I am wondering how others are handling this


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NEWREO said:
I actually read and post here occasionally. I am posting under different name not to be recognizable. I wasn't saying that they are not paying or paying incorrectly. I specifically asked if someone see adjustments on debris removals after the FACT after invoicing. We didn't see it before. In the last year there are issues with the debris. Fewer with dumpsters, more with trailers. In the forum many mention that there are issues, wanted to know if there is a trend and if it's getting worse. Since there are not many CVs we see recently, I can't comment on those, when last year debris removals bids on those were cut a lot, but since we don't remove debris from them, we didn't care. Now with FHA that becomes concerning since this wasn't happening before.
I had two trailers loaded and I was told that there are 5 QY total. That is insane, not to mention that they wanted to cut 60 QY to 20 with the two dumpsters on site. I am wondering how others are handling this

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If you don't like the crap they put you through dont work for them. Simple enough right?
 
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Fair enough, but I could think about it on my own. That wasn't issue before, but resurfaced recently. It's probably obvious that if I wanted to quit, I would give my notice. What I was looking for - for suggestions from others who recently had same issues. I can give many advises on my own and advising to quit, probably will not be the one, since it's old and I would definitely consider doing so once I can pick up someplace else. If I was looking for suggestion to quit or not, I would specifically ask that question up front.
 
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NEWREO said:
Fair enough, but I could think about it on my own. That wasn't issue before, but resurfaced recently. It's probably obvious that if I wanted to quit, I would give my notice. What I was looking for - for suggestions from others who recently had same issues. I can give many advises on my own and advising to quit, probably will not be the one, since it's old and I would definitely consider doing so once I can pick up someplace else. If I was looking for suggestion to quit or not, I would specifically ask that question up front.
I understand where you are going with that statement.But why be shady with a different name.You should know by know Safeguard is the worst to work for.You say you have other name and made posts but the safeguard bashing has never vanished.

If i did a job of 60 cy at 30 per yard just throwing numbers out and they cut my bid to 20 cubic yard at 30 per yard I would quit.If you don't quit you should quit after losing roughly $1200.00 a job you are just as bad a safeguard as you are letting them get away with it.
 
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MKM Landscaping said:
I understand where you are going with that statement.But why be shady with a different name.You should know by know Safeguard is the worst to work for.You say you have other name and made posts but the safeguard bashing has never vanished.

If i did a job of 60 cy at 30 per yard just throwing numbers out and they cut my bid to 20 cubic yard at 30 per yard I would quit.If you don't quit you should quit after losing roughly $1200.00 a job you are just as bad a safeguard as you are letting them get away with it.
They paid for 60 QY eventually. But cut the last invoice.
 

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If you wanted to quit you would give your notice?
Your a contractor. If your finally tired of the beat down you just tell them so, or more politely, that your no longer accepting trashout orders from them.
I only see an increase of their kickbacks due to the increase in hacks doing their work. They have always had a percentage of orders that they decided to cut. That hasn't changed. Snakes are snakes, tigers are tigers, lambs are lambs.
 
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I agree that they had some cuts before, we personally didn't have any cuts on trash-outs until recently, but wonder if there is a wind because FAS had issues and now SG is more concerned about how many QY is billed to the clients. As we noticed when we have dumpsters standing and filled - no questions, nothing, issues only with trailers. The one where we had 60 QY - we had two dumpsters, thanks goodness sec one was different color. Now I am thinking, if we should we start marking dumpsters and trailer such as #1, #2????? Issue we recently had: debris was packed in the construction bags, they told me that they look same and I guess they didn't know how many trailers were there: one or two, they missed pick up truck on the pictures. I don't want to get dumpster on each and every trash-out. They also generally good, but this debris business gives headache. We heard that last year HUD was sending letters in large amounts recouping moneys for debris as not supported by pictures. Not sure if this is still an issue as many sales were on hold and we didn't see too many post-sales.
 

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My last SG trash out took 3 dumpsters. I took multiple photos with all 3 in each one, I took dumpster number photos too.

Along with 6 or 8 of the load on the truck.
 

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Did you submit tape measurements of your dumpsters/trailers with the job?

IMHO most of the time they aren't lowering the count to be shady, but because it's hard to tell from the photos so they "round down" to make a point that we need better photos showing dimensions. Remember, these are typically the more peon type people that are QCing these orders.

I do feel the pain sometimes when I have a crew do a cleanout that I wasn't at, then try to estimate how many CYD we cleaned out from their photos, it can be difficult. Luckily I know the length/height/width/etc of my trailers or any dumpster I order.
 
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Good Point. I will submit measurements of the trailer next time.
Thank you for idea
 

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SwiftRes said:
Did you submit tape measurements of your dumpsters/trailers with the job?

IMHO most of the time they aren't lowering the count to be shady, but because it's hard to tell from the photos so they "round down" to make a point that we need better photos showing dimensions. Remember, these are typically the more peon type people that are QCing these orders.

I do feel the pain sometimes when I have a crew do a cleanout that I wasn't at, then try to estimate how many CYD we cleaned out from their photos, it can be difficult. Luckily I know the length/height/width/etc of my trailers or any dumpster I order.






I strongly disagree.


When they or their client, and its not SG that only does this...... cuts your estimate by half........... yeah they are trying to jack the contractor.

I had one a few months ago. Told them there was 80 there, they thought 50, so did their client. Just goes to show that there is no way they can tell from the before pics how much is there. I was on site and missed it by 35.
Its ignorant and arrogant of these guys to think they can train a low level peon to correctly estimate from pics. Especially when the stuff is all scattered around the house/yard/garage. If the exiting home owners were so nice as to leave it all stacked in the garage in one pile then maybe!

Ended up being 115 measured in a dumpster. Part of my w/o notes included "I told you so".
 

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BPWY said:
Its ignorant and arrogant of these guys to think they can train a low level peon to correctly estimate from pics. Especially when the stuff is all scattered around the house/yard/garage. If the exiting home owners were so nice as to leave it all stacked in the garage in one pile then maybe!

Ended up being 115 measured in a dumpster. Part of my w/o notes included "I told you so".
That is right. That is why companies like Safeguard now want contractors to pile the crap in the middle of the room and photo, break down the entertainment centers and computer desks and photo. Write your counts on a dry erase board and stand next to each pile for a mug shot. They tell you it is so they can better ensure accurate load counts and avoid chargebacks to you, the kindly vendor. Truth is, your just doing more work for them, for nothing. There is no gain to compacting your debris and taking more photos since they won't pay for it. You just add your time and labor for their benefit.
 

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Exactly!!!!
 
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GTX63 said:
That is right. That is why companies like Safeguard now want contractors to pile the crap in the middle of the room and photo, break down the entertainment centers and computer desks and photo. Write your counts on a dry erase board and stand next to each pile for a mug shot. They tell you it is so they can better ensure accurate load counts and avoid chargebacks to you, the kindly vendor. Truth is, your just doing more work for them, for nothing. There is no gain to compacting your debris and taking more photos since they won't pay for it. You just add your time and labor for their benefit.
WOW! I have heard they pay about the same as FAS and Cyprexx on the CYD. If that is true , Safeguard is out of there mind.
 

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STARBABY said:
WOW! I have heard they pay about the same as FAS and Cyprexx on the CYD. If that is true , Safeguard is out of there mind.
No they are not, because there are newbs signing on with them all of the time. This is a reoccurring theme and they are smart enough to see the idiots.
They no longer pay for paint removal as a hazard. Ran into this with them a while back. 30'x40' morton building with almost 600 five gallon buckets of paint. They pay the regular debris rate. If it is lead based, take it to a EPA approved facility and you are allowed to charge 10% above your cost (with a letterhead receipt). LOL...thanks but no thanks.
 

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That's my point though, even you were off by 35 CYD, and you aren't a "low level peon" you are someone that does this often. It's darn near impossible to get an accurate count from photos, regardless of your experience, which is why they want measurements and such of the debris in trailers/dumpsters. So in this situation, I assume you got paid for the 115 CYD because you took good photos of the debris in the dumpsters. So really the estimate being 50 or 80 CYD doesn't matter, as long as the end photo documentation backs up what was actually removed.

Try bidding Cyprexx 80 CYD, having it approved, then removing 115 CYD and telling them you want paid for the add'l 35. IMHO that's why I like SGs system better.

Also, I don't believe SG has ever asked me to put things in the middle of the room and break it down, they do want a whiteboard showing counts of each room, though.

BPWY said:
I strongly disagree.


When they or their client, and its not SG that only does this...... cuts your estimate by half........... yeah they are trying to jack the contractor.

I had one a few months ago. Told them there was 80 there, they thought 50, so did their client. Just goes to show that there is no way they can tell from the before pics how much is there. I was on site and missed it by 35.
Its ignorant and arrogant of these guys to think they can train a low level peon to correctly estimate from pics. Especially when the stuff is all scattered around the house/yard/garage. If the exiting home owners were so nice as to leave it all stacked in the garage in one pile then maybe!

Ended up being 115 measured in a dumpster. Part of my w/o notes included "I told you so".
 

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SwiftRes said:
Also, I don't believe SG has ever asked me to put things in the middle of the room and break it down, they do want a whiteboard showing counts of each room, though.
Management was in Chicago last year for their "Required" training seminar. Safeguard rep giving the class stated it was easier to rake everything into the middle of the room, photo it with a yard stick or the pvc 36"x36" frame for verification, than it was to have to wander from corner to corner bent over and picking everything up. I knew then he had never done a trashout before. Even their best intentioned reps have swallowed the pill or they couldn't do what they do.
 
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