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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I am beginning to see how things work. I did 2 excessive debris jobs in the last 2 weeks(over 35) and both show my 14x8x5 dump trailer fully loaded 5 times per job time and date stamped with a member of my crew standing on top of them. I just get the most make me want to puke email saying that this is within allowable. Tree branches can be broken more. I am in a state of shock, both properties were excessive landscape which we have to trim all shrubs from property, tree branches, and dead vegetation that took my guys between 12-16 hours to make them flawless. Just on the yard, when I called to inquire I get this runaround- Landscape needs to be compressed not like regular debris. So I ask for the compression method 2 trashbags to 1 cyd? No, every case is different. Then we actually have a tense argument and she says forward to another rep maybe they will count differently. It basically means that my 21cyd dump trailer only holds 7cyds of landscape and trash. They must not realize dump fees are higher for Green Waste in Riverside County. Sometimes, it is just so discouraging.... Booo! So my question is what is the problem. Is it the properties not holding enough value to spend money on an additional 25cyds, or is it that no-one wants to be the person to approve overages and lose these million dollar companies $400?
 

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To be honest, my feeling is that they know damn well how much debris there was. They will get paid for the full amount you listed but cut your invoice. Have seen it before, just another way for them to make more money.
 

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You have a rep that has never had to remove debris for a living; they have never had much experience in the field outside of their training when they were hired with the company. They do not "lose" money on a job; in some cases they make less. At best, the rep will be in another field in 6-12 months and they just plain have no feel for what they are doing outside of the company manual. At worst, they are scumbags who work on performance bonuses. Check your state laws; I would inform them via email and paper mail of my intent to collect of what is owed, via lien, etc asap.
 

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I know your outrage...I have never been in a field were they require you to take pictures to prove what you have done then tell you you didn't do what was clearly in the pictures. I have as you have done, gone around in circles with these yahoos to no satisfaction...AH but SOMEDAY when I get my other boot on (sigh) the shoe will be on the other foot and I'll stick my boot up there a$$ while they are trying to get their other shoe on. Seriously, have someone else not involved and unbiased who doesn't know your story look at you pics and ask them what they see. This whole business is about pictures. Use this as a learning experiance as I had to once and got "educated" on how to make a picture say what you want it to say.
 

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So I am beginning to see how things work. I did 2 excessive debris jobs in the last 2 weeks(over 35) and both show my 14x8x5 dump trailer fully loaded 5 times per job time and date stamped with a member of my crew standing on top of them. I just get the most make me want to puke email saying that this is within allowable. Tree branches can be broken more. I am in a state of shock, both properties were excessive landscape which we have to trim all shrubs from property, tree branches, and dead vegetation that took my guys between 12-16 hours to make them flawless. Just on the yard, when I called to inquire I get this runaround- Landscape needs to be compressed not like regular debris. So I ask for the compression method 2 trashbags to 1 cyd? No, every case is different. Then we actually have a tense argument and she says forward to another rep maybe they will count differently. It basically means that my 21cyd dump trailer only holds 7cyds of landscape and trash. They must not realize dump fees are higher for Green Waste in Riverside County. Sometimes, it is just so discouraging.... Booo! So my question is what is the problem. Is it the properties not holding enough value to spend money on an additional 25cyds, or is it that no-one wants to be the person to approve overages and lose these million dollar companies $400?
Politely inform your rep that you are very well versed on the dimensions of your dump trailer, and you know EXACTLY how many loads to return to the property above what you are paid for.

Even if the stuff has been removed, I'm sure you can find sources of debris to redeposit at the property. :thumbsup: Keep in mind, this may be the last time they ever send you work, but who wants to work for a company like that anyway.

I met a guy in Milwaukee once dumping crap at a foreclosure. He told me they didn't pay him what he was owed and was just returning it to them. He could have been full of chit, but with me being in this business, it seemed just as plausible that he was telling the truth too.
 

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The problem is that those deskjockeys see the tree removal companies with Chippers working and EXPECT you to "have 1 of those Chippers also" BUT they dont pay enough to justify the equipment purchase.

In 2006 I purchase a skidloader and grapple bucket to be able to more effeciently remove large debris fields from farm properties. Used it apprx 10x on P&P jobs THEN the banks decided to sell "as is". Anyone need a good deal on a 04 Case 45XT w/grapple and trailer? :)
 

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The problem is that those deskjockeys see the tree removal companies with Chippers working and EXPECT you to "have 1 of those Chippers also" BUT they dont pay enough to justify the equipment purchase.

In 2006 I purchase a skidloader and grapple bucket to be able to more effeciently remove large debris fields from farm properties. Used it apprx 10x on P&P jobs THEN the banks decided to sell "as is". Anyone need a good deal on a 04 Case 45XT w/grapple and trailer? :)
Ooooo what kinda good deal are we talking about?
 

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So I am beginning to see how things work. I did 2 excessive debris jobs in the last 2 weeks(over 35) and both show my 14x8x5 dump trailer fully loaded 5 times per job time and date stamped with a member of my crew standing on top of them. I just get the most make me want to puke email saying that this is within allowable. Tree branches can be broken more. I am in a state of shock, both properties were excessive landscape which we have to trim all shrubs from property, tree branches, and dead vegetation that took my guys between 12-16 hours to make them flawless. Just on the yard, when I called to inquire I get this runaround- Landscape needs to be compressed not like regular debris. So I ask for the compression method 2 trashbags to 1 cyd? No, every case is different. Then we actually have a tense argument and she says forward to another rep maybe they will count differently. It basically means that my 21cyd dump trailer only holds 7cyds of landscape and trash. They must not realize dump fees are higher for Green Waste in Riverside County. Sometimes, it is just so discouraging.... Booo! So my question is what is the problem. Is it the properties not holding enough value to spend money on an additional 25cyds, or is it that no-one wants to be the person to approve overages and lose these million dollar companies $400?
I feel your pain, but I'm suprised you haven't learned this lesson a long time ago. Too bad it had to be on a job like this but at least it wasn't a 100 plus harder... Things could have always been worse


Was this a ams property?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To be honest, my feeling is that they know damn well how much debris there was. They will get paid for the full amount you listed but cut your invoice. Have seen it before, just another way for them to make more money.
is that how it works? I was trying to figure the method to their madness, why all of a sudden there is so much more inconsistency and cutting on my debris counts. Do you think they get a per cyd rate, if so that is b.s because they make more on their portion of the flat rate than the vendor.
 

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Depending on the size of the company, each department/coverage area will have quarterly goals which must be met if they want to keep their jobs. Above and beyond that there are performance bonuses based on turn around time, scorecards, etc, and...their own profit margins. Mostly it is really a simple answer, your contracting with idiots. Sometimes, everything has been going smoothly until your Rep goes to her biweekly manager's meeting and gets reamed over her department's numbers. She comes back and reams her people, who in turn ream you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I feel your pain, but I'm suprised you haven't learned this lesson a long time ago. Too bad it had to be on a job like this but at least it wasn't a 100 plus harder... Things could have always been worse


Was this a ams property?
yes, unfortunately this last month the more accurate and detailed I have been with my trailer shots, dump reciepts etc. the more reasons i am getting that my count is off. This i just cant wrap my head around, i was up calculating all last night my 21cyd trailer*5 loaded shots(over the top uncompressed branches/leaves bushes and 1 trailer of trash) should be 100 cyd capacity. So if I am only billing an additional 35(70 total) wouldnt that be more than fair giving 30 cyds for air pockets and loose branches. I totally lost on an Fas job, the last we ever did. they originally precounted 450 and adjusted to 300 because they dont pay heavy weight. it was crazy, we were removing the metal covers for wells like 24 tons of debris. It doesnt matter how smart i think i am, i just cant win lol!
 

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yes, unfortunately this last month the more accurate and detailed I have been with my trailer shots, dump reciepts etc. the more reasons i am getting that my count is off. This i just cant wrap my head around, i was up calculating all last night my 21cyd trailer*5 loaded shots(over the top uncompressed branches/leaves bushes and 1 trailer of trash) should be 100 cyd capacity. So if I am only billing an additional 35(70 total) wouldnt that be more than fair giving 30 cyds for air pockets and loose branches. I totally lost on an Fas job, the last we ever did. they originally precounted 450 and adjusted to 300 because they dont pay heavy weight. it was crazy, we were removing the metal covers for wells like 24 tons of debris. It doesnt matter how smart i think i am, i just cant win lol!
Wait did you remove the metal and not recycle it? You can make a killing on metal. I've personally made $500 on just metal from some cap ams jobs
 

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If it's FNMA, unfortunately service companies have gotten so competitive with one another they are bidding "as bundled" or as the new terminology Initial Service Bundle. So in essence, these upstart "national" providers have come in in the last 4-5 years and started undercutting each others bids. There are provisions within the contract for over allowables, but 'they' aren't going to make you or I privy to that.
I can tell you this though. I do know that the going rate to contractor on an ISB is less than half the contract amount. So do the math on that. +50% to service company in addition to the 20-25% discount off contractors portion.
A system set up to fail, and fail rapidly. Unfortunately it will take a bit of time for it to bottom out, as there is still a steady stream of "get rich quick" contractors willing to plug away at it for a couple years thinking they are doing just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wait did you remove the metal and not recycle it? You can make a killing on metal. I've personally made $500 on just metal from some cap ams jobs
That was the first time we realized the value of metal! We made like $1200 from all the stuff, but because it was a rural job the dump was an hour away with 14 trips in a huge diesel. So the metal paid for gas thank god! and maybe 1 dump because the minimum is so high out there. When we sent over the dump reciepts etc. in our arguments they had the nerve to say "we show you making $200 after dumps" The job took us 6 days to complete, and we actually ended up negative because we got the $17cyd minus a 27% discount! Ridic, no matter the complaints i have with Ams, they could never compare to the previous FM company lol. After replayin that situation I all of a sudden feel like the 35 cyd thing isnt so bad haha! what a world to work in!
 

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I have blank dump receipts from many of the landfills we operated out of. Just tell them you need some of their "blanks" to submit for foreclosure properties. Scan them into computer and fill in the blanks.

If any MN guys need just p.m.
 

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is that how it works? I was trying to figure the method to their madness, why all of a sudden there is so much more inconsistency and cutting on my debris counts. Do you think they get a per cyd rate, if so that is b.s because they make more on their portion of the flat rate than the vendor.

BEcause it is so slow. The nationals have to watch their costas too. I had one where because they did nt want to pay a better trip charge I refused the job. GLAD I did . They get paid good money (500 for the flat fee for a ppr property when it is completed lock and yard or wint. The 500 is on TOP of the services !!) They will loose good vendors and wonder why where did they go?? I have an interview on tuesday for another foot in the door position. Pay as good NO but I have ben blessed and made my fortune in this industry and PUT IT AWA. Its just getting too crazy and unpredictible these days.
 

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Blondie....

We had had that happen once...this is how we responded...

Quality Control Procedures
1. Initial Inspections:
Once a work order is received, an initial inspection of the property is performed. The inspection includes all photos to support written documentation. Written report must be broken down by service needed and the description of each service.
2. Initial Inspection report with supporting photos are submitted to the Client. At this time, a written request for Personal Property Removal is requested or verified. If necessary, written requests for approvals from the Realtor are generated.
3. Services Performed. Upon approval of services from the Client and/or Realtor, the services are performed.
4. In House Inspection. Our in-house inspector will inspect the services performed and prepare a written report, with photos, if necessary, to the Quality Control Manager,
5. The completed work order is submitted to the Client with our invoice for payment of services rendered.
6. Service Correction. If a service is not performed satisfactorily to the Client, the employee will return to the property to correct the service performed. New photos showing the correction will be submitted to the Client for approval.

This became company policy for ANY property and still is....Especially on "over the allowable" we force them to agree up front to the fees...in writing...if they will not agree we pass....

Good luck Hope this helps...
 
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