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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a statement I made to a company yesterday when I was asked to asked to be specific about some of the issues we have all faced in this industry for the past couple of years...and only..at least to me...seem to be getting worse daily
Please tell me one of you have something in regards to the "correct terminology" subject mentioned..
All comments on any subject matter of the post are welcome!!!

Happy reading...

We haven't been screaming loud enough for the pertant parties to hear us for the past two years?????
As I said in a post regarding similar subject matter...what is going to take before...enough is enough?
>Will we have a tragic child injury on a job because someone can not afford a baby sitter while performing these services?
>Will some hiway fatality happen because someone does not have the proper credentials working for these second and third level companies because the nationals refuse to stop using them?
> Will there be a major lawsuit involving the entire industry because we are not allowed to use the correct terminology...MOLD...
>How long is it going to be before the bleach and kilz backfires because these companies are traded on the NYSE and have to monitor the bottom line and would rather put a bandaid on something the requires open heart surgery....
>How many people have filed bankruptcy in the past 18 months because they were coonvinced "volume" was the answer to $40 winterization services???

I have volunteered to assist with field training..ON MY DIME...with every organization our company has work with just so there would be some consistancy in our coverage area...
>Why the big seceret of who the vendor network is in a coverage area????
> Why won't the major nationals a share that information so the local vendors can work together providing the national with the highest quality service possible???
>Why does the vendor have to spend $5,000.00 in travel, hotels, rental cars etc to come to a convention to receive information?
>Why do the "boots on the ground" companies have to change their business model to accomodate the fat cats?

Just sayin'...
well askin'...
 

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Very simple answer to this.

If you not comfortable doing the job quit.
If you not comfortable treating a property with bleach bid to fix it correctly, they don't like it quit.

Simple answer if you can't make money quit.

Your not going to change the way a bank works if you can't make money quit
 

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when its enough

Just got this in an email and the stream seemed correct to post here


1. Initial Inspection with systems test / up to 2 locks changed (24 Hour Timeline) $75 Flat Fee 2. Dry Winterization (24 Hour Timeline, to be included with Initial Inspection) $50 Flat Fee

A RESPONSE WITH AGREEMENT TO PRICING IS REQUIRED.

Further information to follow.



when you get an email like this and actually consider replyin " yea send some over " yup thats when its enough
24 hr turnover i guess there is no rush charge premium on this or is the 75 the premium and future pricing to be negotiated when its not rammed up there butt
 

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Just got this in an email and the stream seemed correct to post here


1. Initial Inspection with systems test / up to 2 locks changed (24 Hour Timeline) $75 Flat Fee 2. Dry Winterization (24 Hour Timeline, to be included with Initial Inspection) $50 Flat Fee

A RESPONSE WITH AGREEMENT TO PRICING IS REQUIRED.

Further information to follow.



when you get an email like this and actually consider replyin " yea send some over " yup thats when its enough
24 hr turnover i guess there is no rush charge premium on this or is the 75 the premium and future pricing to be negotiated when its not rammed up there butt
Got the same email......
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Very simple answer to this.

If you not comfortable doing the job quit.
If you not comfortable treating a property with bleach bid to fix it correctly, they don't like it quit.

Simple answer if you can't make money quit.

Your not going to change the way a bank works if you can't make money quit

Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???

I'm sorry but you need to have the courage to say no...
QUITING is not the answer. I have more integrity than that...
 

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You don't offend me at all.

The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!! Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you

I work for sg and locals and I do a ton of mold work over 100k a year for sg and they have never approved bleach and killz for me.

If its a small amount mold say under 100sqft the chemicals to treat it correct with fungicide and foster or a different brand of encaplsuation product its not that much at all. Maybe under 15 in product.


You are bidding the jobs wrong, bid to abate the mold bid to treat with fungicide and seal with foster 50, don't let them tell you how to bid. Remember your a sub conctractor and they can't make you bid it that way. If you don't want to do mold say you don't have pollution insurance and your not covered, believe me they don't make you complete the work.

The really problem I see is the conctractors wanting to squeeze every nickel out of every job. Guys that have never treated mold shouldn't be touching the stuff. when I go to the vendor conference all the guys bitch about reporting damages and never getting paid to repair them. You are doing an inspection reporting damages and giving eyeball estimate that's it, your not in the rehab business. Most guys in the p&p business couldn't float what it takes do rehabs for a bank client on average my acount rec is over 60k a month and its been at the high 150k. On insurance work it takes sometimes 90 plus days to get paid.



Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???

I'm sorry but you need to have the courage to say no...
QUITING is not the answer. I have more integrity than that...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You don't offend me at all.

The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!! Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you

I work for sg and locals and I do a ton of mold work over 100k a year for sg and they have never approved bleach and killz for me.

If its a small amount mold say under 100sqft the chemicals to treat it correct with fungicide and foster or a different brand of encaplsuation product its not that much at all. Maybe under 15 in product.


You are bidding the jobs wrong, bid to abate the mold bid to treat with fungicide and seal with foster 50, don't let them tell you how to bid. Remember your a sub conctractor and they can't make you bid it that way. If you don't want to do mold say you don't have pollution insurance and your not covered, believe me they don't make you complete the work.

The really problem I see is the conctractors wanting to squeeze every nickel out of every job. Guys that have never treated mold shouldn't be touching the stuff. when I go to the vendor conference all the guys bitch about reporting damages and never getting paid to repair them. You are doing an inspection reporting damages and giving eyeball estimate that's it, your not in the rehab business. Most guys in the p&p business couldn't float what it takes do rehabs for a bank client on average my acount rec is over 60k a month and its been at the high 150k. On insurance work it takes sometimes 90 plus days to get paid.

I'm sorry but you have interpreted this incorrectly...I did not say I did any of the above.
We REFUSE to do bleach and kilz...That was a question I posed to a member of NAMFS...

my goal with this thread is to gather information...especially about mold vs "discoloration"
 

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> Will there be a major lawsuit involving the entire industry because we are not allowed to use the correct terminology...MOLD...

IT has to be disclosed in the purchase and sale agreement LAW


LOOK AT YOUR GL insurance. I CAN'T hire a remediation company and be covered under my GL. It is in the contract. If the national can't understand that PISS OFF is what I say to them. I WON"T risk loosing everything I have for one of their dumbass properties. Grow a set, get the prescription filled and PUSH BACK AS HARD AS IT TAKES !! I have been doing this for 7 years. IS it getting easier? YES because of the regularity in which I have to do it. Enjoyable ? NO More along of the lines of moronic when t hey don't know whom they are dealing with !! It just becomes a cat and mouse game. I don't care if they call it discoloration fading stains or what ever. NO means NO, is it the N or the O that is confusing them ??? Don't know and don't care. THEY YES THEY have a contract and if they were to treat us better they would not have as many SELF inflicted headaches. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE INDUSTRY but are welcome to try. Learn the habits and mannerisms of those you work for, CONTROL the things you are in control of, and ORDAIN YOUR destiny !! Its ALL about working them over as much as they are working you over. BE diplomatic and let them have YOUR way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...

Again I gathering information...
I have spoken and I have been told YOUCANT' USE THE WORD MOLD YOU HAVE TO SAY DISCOLORATION...
We're looking for something in writing...

Maybe everyone will understand a little better if they read the entire thread...here's the link...

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...tID=107397872&trk=view_disc&ut=38Ge6j35Pbw5w1
 

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Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...

Again I gathering information...
I have spoken and I have been told YOUCANT' USE THE WORD MOLD YOU HAVE TO SAY DISCOLORATION...
We're looking for something in writing...

Maybe everyone will understand a little better if they read the entire thread...here's the link...

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...tID=107397872&trk=view_disc&ut=38Ge6j35Pbw5w1

Yes YOU have missed the point. PUSH BACK. If it isn't right DON'T do it. It isnt worth loosing what you have. NO is a simple word and when told I can't do it because i'm not covered they back off. I have a copy of my NO MOLD clause to show them. I bet your GL policy' (not being cheeky if you have GL just saying laws are different in different states, nothing personal in any way) has the same clause, talk to your agent. If they threaten reassignment. "DO it and quit playing the pathetic threatening card" is what they are told here. Nationals WILL NOT change till they , as is happening, start to realize the FEW contractors they have left are starting to have the power. I am seing it here and it is about time. If they want it remediated then there is NOTHIN stopping them from going direct to a remediation company and having it done. NEXT SUBJECT PLEASE
 

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I have also lost out on a lot of work for this reason. When you can clearly see that the MOLD has penetrated the drywall then there is no way to bleach clean and cover with KILZ.
I always bid to remove the drywall. Then after 5 or 6 times of arguing with them because I will not do it their way, they get another bone head to do it.
Oh well that is fine with me, at least I will not be sued for it.
Rather lose $5000.00 now than $50,000.00 later in fines.
 

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Maybe I come off a little hard, Im not saying you do the bleach thing I'm just using it as example that I would say to a rookie conctractor.

I'm sorry if I offend you, I like to agrue.

I love the discussion I like to hear both sides, it helps me run and sell work to my clients in a more informed way


What clients use discoloration anymore, I'm not into working with regional and idiots. It been about 3 years since I heard a local agent calling mold that and I known sg hasn't used that term in about 1.5 years. They sent a memo out that if you used discoloration you would have to return and repair at your cost.

I'm sorry but you have interpreted this incorrectly...I did not say I did any of the above.
We REFUSE to do bleach and kilz...That was a question I posed to a member of NAMFS...

my goal with this thread is to gather information...especially about mold vs "discoloration"
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Maybe I come off a little hard, Im not saying you do the bleach thing I'm just using it as example that I would say to a rookie conctractor.

I'm sorry if I offend you, I like to agrue.

I love the discussion I like to hear both sides, it helps me run and sell work to my clients in a more informed way


What clients use discoloration anymore, I'm not into working with regional and idiots. It been about 3 years since I heard a local agent calling mold that and I known sg hasn't used that term in about 1.5 years. They sent a memo out that if you used discoloration you would have to return and repair at your cost.

We are lucky here...very dry...DRY...so not a lot of mold...so no our insurance does not cover this...I would not be able to justify the premimum...
I make the report and walk away....
I have though inspected a couple properties that the mold had qrown through the coat of kilz.....
 

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Sorry to offend you wmhcl...
but it this precise attitude that allows these issues to continue to progressively get worse in the industry...
Would you let one of your children purchase a home the you knew had The "bleach and kilz" treatment vs. a mold remediation/abatement???

I'm sorry but you need to have the courage to say no...
QUITING is not the answer. I have more integrity than that...
I applaud your integrity, if that means a hill-a-beans to you... but integrity was a product of the 50's an 60's... it has since lost it's luster. If the industry had more contractors like you it would be a better place to work.
Until a coalition is established with "standards & practices" it will continue to disintegrate. NAMFS... it's a joke. pay'em $350 (I think that was membership dues 12 years ago when I joined and quit soon after), for what ...with Banks an Nationals as members an directors...we all know it's the fox watchin the hen house.
When you have thousands of Regionals working for several hundred Nationals each interpreting guidelines in accordance with their own bottom line, guidelines get lost in the shuffle.
Anybody with a lawn mower, snow plow or tool set can do this business, whether or they make $$$ at is another story.

The only simple answer is as WHMLC put it, if your not comfortable with it attempt to change it or quit.
If your not willing to quit... contact your state and national politicians, put a bug in their ear, maybe if "enough" legitimate contractors contact their representatives the track of this Industry can change course.
 

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Perhaps everyone shuould go read the entire thread...I'm not looking for solutions to complete or not complete...Our company REFUSES to do the kilz and bleach thing...We don't care if it is 6 inches...period ...we do not use the term "discoloration" we say mold...
The question stemmed form a post I made asking NAMFS to explain the opening paragraph of their home page...

Again I gathering information...
I have spoken and I have been told YOUCANT' USE THE WORD MOLD YOU HAVE TO SAY DISCOLORATION...
We're looking for something in writing...

Maybe everyone will understand a little better if they read the entire thread...here's the link...

http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswer...tID=107397872&trk=view_disc&ut=38Ge6j35Pbw5w1

It black and white, and sometimes it's green Mold by anyother name it's still mold... which is a respiratory hazard to humans... Whom ever told you use discoloration is mis-informed an dancing around an issue I won't entertain.... IT's FREAKIN MOLD.
 

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You don't offend me at all.

The real problem is why you are completing the bleach and killz treatment!!! Do you complete it because they threat a chargeback??? If that's the cause your not a business owner and you should close your business because it's your business and not your clients. You need to run your business not have your business run you

I work for sg and locals and I do a ton of mold work over 100k a year for sg and they have never approved bleach and killz for me.

If its a small amount mold say under 100sqft the chemicals to treat it correct with fungicide and foster or a different brand of encaplsuation product its not that much at all. Maybe under 15 in product.


You are bidding the jobs wrong, bid to abate the mold bid to treat with fungicide and seal with foster 50, don't let them tell you how to bid. Remember your a sub conctractor and they can't make you bid it that way. If you don't want to do mold say you don't have pollution insurance and your not covered, believe me they don't make you complete the work.

The really problem I see is the conctractors wanting to squeeze every nickel out of every job. Guys that have never treated mold shouldn't be touching the stuff. when I go to the vendor conference all the guys bitch about reporting damages and never getting paid to repair them. You are doing an inspection reporting damages and giving eyeball estimate that's it, your not in the rehab business. Most guys in the p&p business couldn't float what it takes do rehabs for a bank client on average my acount rec is over 60k a month and its been at the high 150k. On insurance work it takes sometimes 90 plus days to get paid.




You've obviously never worked for a lot of the nationals out there that DEMAND bleach and kilz.
They do not allow "proper" bids.
 

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You've obviously never worked for a lot of the nationals out there that DEMAND bleach and kilz.
They do not allow "proper" bids.
I have never been told I had to bid bleach/kilz route. I have heard 5Bros does that though. SG has told me they need me to bid that route a couple of times but I have just explained that we can't complete that way. For the most part I think all we've gotten approved is when we do mold on concrete block or maybe minor paneling/drywall in basement. All jobs larger than that we've bid high and not gotten approved.

In at least two specific cases, other vendors vendors have painted over the damaged drywall, since I wouldn't do it. One of them was probably 3k-4k SF of mold, probably 1000 sf of drywall on main level included in that. Someone painted it all. Crazy someone would do that. Of course I report/bid the mold everytime we get a convey check as some is coming back through the paint, and I know it's still present.
 
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